Real Talk With Susan & Kristina

In this episode of Real Talk, KJK Student Defense Attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler are joined by Carrie Hull, who founded the You Have Options Program, nationally recognized for providing reporting options for survivors of sexual violence. Carrie also created the Certified FETI® Program, standardizing trauma interviews. They discuss the importance of utilizing effective interviewing techniques in investigations, specifically within the realms of law enforcement and Title IX cases. They also explore the necessity of gathering accurate information and avoiding biased assumptions through neutral questioning. The role of body language and filtering out implicit bias is also discussed.

· Carrie’s Background (1:30)

· The FETI framework (2:30)

· The science and study behind FETI (4:15)

· The applications of a FETI interview (5:30)

· How to ask questions using the FETI methodology (7:00)

· Collecting the dots vs connecting the dots (08:30)

· Receiving answers without judgement (10:00)

· Use in different disciplines (11:45)

· How FETI can be used in Title IX cases (13:50)

· The importance of framing an investigation (16:30)

· The role of body language in an interview (18:00)

· How to prevent leading questions (19:45)

· How to filter implicit bias (21:00)

· How a FETI investigation differs (23:00)

· Conclusion (25:20)

Susan Stone: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Christina Subler. We are full-time moms and attorneys bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real candid conversation. Today's episode is gonna focus on a topic that Christina and I really take for granted, and that's the actual interviewing process of somebody who is either reporting a Title IX complaint or a crime.

Kristina Supler: I am excited for today's guest because I think that sometimes when lawyers are brought in for student advisors, in particularly campus Title IX cases, there's so much focus on the hearing. But I know Susan, you and I always talk about how important the interview is, and we spend so much time preparing our students for their interview.

Susan Stone: I agree. And we have seen so many different styles of investigators. It's like snowflakes no two are the same. And I, I really do mean that we've seen people who make our students feel interrogated.

Kristina Supler: Sure. And, and then we've also had, you know, investigators who I felt were very impartial and truly there to just have a conversation to collect evidence.

Susan Stone: On the flip side, you want your investigator to be impartial, but you also want the details to come out and you wanna make sure they circle back and do a thorough investigation and really try to dig out the truth.

Kristina Supler That's right. That's right. Well, I'm excited to speak with today's guest, Carrie Hall. Yeah. Carrie is an Oregon native, a former de detective with the Ashland Police Department and a leading figure in improving law enforcement responses to sexual violence. She created the Certified FETI® Program, which is an interviewing methodology intended to sort of standardize investigative interviews. And through her consultancy, Carrie Hall Consulting, she also offers specialized training to law enforcements across the globe. We're really pleased to have you join us today. Carrie. Welcome. Welcome, Carrie.

Carrie Hull: Well, thanks so much.

Susan Stone: We're gonna start with the first question. We like to go broad and then whittle down called the, is that the funnel approach? Carrie?

Carrie Hull: Funnel Technique. Funnel

Susan Stone: So describe the FETI framework. How's that?

Carrie Hull: Yeah, so FETI stands for the Forensic Experiential Trauma Interview, and it really is made up of a series of principles and foundational, you know, metrics that are on the practitioner. So when we say practitioner, we mean the person who is conducting the interview. We don't have any requirements or any restrictions that are placed on what we consider the participant. We don't view our participants as victims, witnesses, suspects, anything like that, because we really want them to remain and us to remain in the neutral. We are fully just a methodology that is about information collection. So it's been very interesting when I, when I was listening to that introduction and you talking about interacting with some of these different investigators, what I think is such a defining piece for me as an investigator of FETI is that it forces me to stay in the interviewer role and not conflate being an investigator at the same time, whic...

In this episode of Real Talk, KJK Student Defense Attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler are joined by Carly Boyd, a domestic relations attorney. In this episode, they talk about the effects of a recent Department of Justice Investigation at Case Western Reserve University will have on student life. They discuss the biggest misperceptions students have around Title IX issues, why students don't report harassment cases in both Greek organizations and Sports Teams, and what triggers most harassment cases.

Show Notes:

(04:31) Biggest Misperceptions Students Have with TitleIX and Other Issues (05:28) The Reaction to the DOJ Sexual Conduct Investigation at Case University (08:41) Why More Students Don’t Come Forward (11:32) Why Athletes Don’t Report Harassment (14:08) What Lies at the Heart of Most Harassment Claims (15:32) Is Bystander Intervention Training Effective? (16:46) Carly’s Advice for Students this New Academic Year

Transcript:

Susan Stone: So Kristina, last week we just received a copy of the resolution agreement between the federal government and Case Western Reserve University. And for our listeners out there, Case is right in our backyard. It's where I went to law school. And apparently the Department of Justice conducted an investigation of the university's response to reports of claims by student on student and employee on student sexual harassment between the years of 2017 and 18, 20 and 21. So right smack in the pandemic.

There were a lot of interviews were conducted with a whole host of administrators. And in particular, I couldn't help but notice there was a lot of interviews and roundtables that were facilitated with Interfraternity Council and the Women's Health Center and a lot of Greek organizations.

Kristina Supler: Yeah, it was really interesting report to read, Susan. And I was surprised to see the report come out. I think a real upside to this is that Case is committed to strengthening its strength. It's training in response to programs associated with reports of sexual assault or harassment.

Susan Stone: Exactly, because the Case is actually rolling out it's a whole entire program called It's on CWRU, which is a violence prevention campaign. And it'll be interesting to see how that impacts Greek culture and hazing in general.

Kristina Supler: There's a lot of new obligations in that resolution agreement that the university is committed to. But also that fall on members of Greek life and,for example, sororities and fraternities have to disclose to the chapter when there's internal investigations of sexual misconduct. There's new operating protocols. And I'm really curious to hear more about how this is going to play out on campus, day to day realities.

Susan Stone: We are so lucky because our very own Carly Boyd, our partner, might have some inside scoop.

Kristina Supler: Welcome Carly. We're pleased to be joined by Carly Boyd. She's a skilled domestic relations attorney who has been working in that field for over a decade and she's in the firms here at KJK family law practice group. And Carly, you might be thinking, why are you having a domestic relations attorney on this podcast. But Carly is actually a former advisor to the Alpha Gamma Delta sorority at Case Western Reserve.

And so she's here today to just talk with us about this resolution agreement and looking to the future, what it means for Greek life. So welcome, Carly.

Carly Boyd: Welcome, Ladies. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here and talk about this.

Susan Stone: Yeah. Carly, just tell us to start, what do you do or what did you do? Because I know you just stepped down in July for, and can I call the Alpha Gamma Delta the Alpha Gams? Is that correct?

Carly Boyd: Yeah, that's Okay. I was their chapter wellness advisor from 2018 to just this past summer. Case Western just added Alpha Gam in 2018. It was a new chapter for them, which was really exciting. Just, like Susan and I went to Case Western for law school and I was really excited to combine my passion for Alpha Gam at Case.

And so in a sorority and a fraternity, they have a main chapter advisor. And then there was a bunch of different ones to help with the different directors. So I was there to assist with the director as they needed me. The chapter wellness kind of focuses on membership on activities and really just being there for retention of members was where I was at. They didn't need me all the time, but there was issues I could be there as a guidance and as a true advisor for them.

Kristina Supler: So you were really, in the trenches having contact with the students. I'm curiou...

In this episode of Real Talk, KJK Student Defense Attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler are joined by Randy Rohde, the founder of 38 Digital Market. They discuss what it’s been like to run a law practice as partners. The conversation includes how their diverse skill set and respective approaches has created a strong foundation for their powerful partnership, how they challenged traditional law firm practices with their unique approach to business and the services they provide and the fundamental elements of being an effective lawyer and having a successful practice.

Show Notes:

• (00:55) How strengthening their business relationship has significantly impacted their ability to help students and their families with legal matters
• (02:36) Achieving growth and development through constructive conflict
• (03:38) Maintaining professionalism with mutual respect and trust in one another
• (04:29) How Title IX sparked the beginning of their business partnership and mission to help students and their families
• (06:21) The controversy of breaking law firm industry norms by equally sharing origination credits of their business
• (07:52) The beauty of applying a growth mindset to a complementary skill set
• (09:44) Title IX and research misconduct cases, and how their archetypal clientele has evolved throughout the years and pandemic.
• (12:10) Going beyond legal consultation with parental counseling for clients and how it’s helped their personal development
• (16:29) Why listening skills and establishing boundaries are rudimentary to becoming a successful lawyer for your clients
• (17:47) How the dynamics of their partnership in every case has proved to be advantageous for their clients time and again
• (23:03) The perfect time to hire a lawyer that yields the best possible outcome regardless of the type of case

Transcript:

Kristina Supler: Today, we're doing real talk conversations. We're joined by Randy Rohde of 38 Digital Market.

Susan Stone: You mean we're talking to each other. With Randy. Hi, Randy. yes.

Randy Rohde: Yes. You're talking to each other and I'm just kind of here along for the ride a little bit. So, thank you for inviting me and having me part of the team here today.

Randy Rohde: It really is an honor and you. Folks have done really some remarkable things. I think in what you do in your practice. I would love to hear a lot of that, but maybe to start as first. How about some background on the two of you?

Susan Stone: Thanks. It's so funny. You take for granted what you have every day in your life. And Kristine and I are really lucky that we formed this team to represent students and families with legal needs with regard to their education or some other crisis. And we take a team approach in every aspect of what we do, whether it's building our business or serving our clients.

Kristina Supler: What's always so interesting to me. And, and, and I know Susan shares the same perspective. People have this perception of us that we have this wonderful team and business we've built and a friendship as well, because we're as close outta the office as we appear to be in the office. But it's not something that's just always been there. I mean, over the years, we've really worked hard to get to know each other and figure out our likes, our interests our pain points, our weaknesses, and figure out how to grow with each other and really build a business together into what we both enjoy in a business that taps into not only helping people, but also that brings us fulfillment.

Susan Stone: I think that was really nicely put. Yeah.

Randy Rohde: Yeah. And I know from past conversations with the two of you that you also highly, I will say compliment each other on the differences of your either specialties or the way that you just were maybe better put to say your personalities and it enables you, I think maybe when you mix it all together, it's like an incredible team.

Susan Stone: Well, you know, I do wanna say that we were a lot more different 10 years ago.

Kristina Supler: Absolutely speaking for myself, a vastly different person, really.

Susan Stone: And we were different generations. We had different career goals and as time went on and really working through things, I would say now we're like an old, married couple in many ways where we can complete each other's sentences. But it's the differences that make us more powerful and in many ways.

Susan Stone: And sometimes I miss that time where it was so vastly different. Of course there's less clash, there's less conflict, but sometimes the growth was in the co...

In this episode of Real Talk, KJK Student Defense Attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler are joined by a parent who we will refer to as “Jane Doe,” who had to experience watching her son face prosecution for rape and kidnapping. And after a long and agonizing trial, her son was found not guilty by a jury after only 15 minutes of deliberation. The conversation includes how a fling turned into a criminal charge and years of distress, the realistic, negative impact of false accusations on victims and their families, and prevention and coping mechanisms for a defendant and their families during prosecution.

Links:

• Susan Stone
• Kristina Supler

Show Notes:

• How a casual relationship spiraled out of control (01:38)
• How the truth became overshadowed by the school, parents, the accuser, the police, and the justice system (03:07)
• The result of a criminal charge, indictment, 2 trials, and years of agony (03:38)
• Why parents need to discuss the dangers of hookup culture with their children (04:30)
• The role hookup and cancel culture has played in her son’s false rape accusation (06:22)
• The agony of witnessing your child’s life stop and become turned over to the justice system (07:46)
• The lack of support from the school administration and the impact this had on the child’s siblings at the same school (09:51)
• A remarkable turn of events: how good acquaintances turned into the best support system one could ask for (10:27)
• How one student’s false accusation instilled a fear on the entire student body (11:35)
• Navigating the unknown world of the justice system as a terrified parent (13:25)
• The living purgatory of waiting for a second trial (16:36)
• Juggling college and preparing for a new trial (17:27)
• The necessity and precautions of seeking external support to cope with the stress of an ongoing trial (18:44)
• What it’s really like for a family to deal with the tension of a trial (20:53)
• How Jane found solace in her community and other mothers going through what her family was experiencing (23:15)
• Finding some closure through filing and settling a defamation and malicious prosecution lawsuit after acquittal (26:50)

Transcript:

Kristina Supler: Today's episode is the epitome of real talk. We're joined by a parent who will refer to as Jane Doe.

Kristina Supler: Jane sadly had to live through the experience of watching her son face prosecution for rape and kidnapping. And after a long trial, agonizing, her son was found not guilty by a jury after only 15 minutes of deliberation.

Kristina Supler: And I'm sure those 15 minutes were the longest 15 minutes of her life. Jane has graciously agreed to talk to us today about her experience.

Susan Stone: And we thank you, Jane for coming today. And, Christina, we deal every day in our practice with not just students going through title nine process, but sadly, we have had a lot of interplay between the national title nine process and the criminal justice system.

Susan Stone: And we privately have conversations and this is the first time. On our podcast, where we have had a parent tell their story. So thank you for coming. And our first question would be without revealing identities, because we want to be sensitive to your privacy and that of your child. But can you briefly describe Jane what the allegations were that were lodged against your son?

Susan Stone: Tell your story.

Jane Doe: I I'd be happy to. And thank you so much for inviting me here today. It's an honor to talk about this, uh, process because of what our family has been through. Um, shortly after he graduated high school, my son was accused of rape and kidnapping by a girl with whom he had a casual relationship.

Jane Doe: They had had an interaction at a party, and again, they were known to each other, but they had interacted at a party and shortly after their interaction was over, she accused him of rape. And, uh, as I say at that moment, the train left the station. And from there. She reported the incident to her parents who then of course, as any parent would do took action, not knowing.

Jane Doe: Any facts, of course, but just what their daughter had told them. And they took action. She went through the process of going to the hospital and a number of events that occurred when you do that, when you make an accusation and from there forward, It just felt like a bomb dropped and there was no, no control over what was going to happen from there.

Jane Doe: And I inte...

Dear Listeners,

We want to extend a heartfelt thank you for your incredible support and engagement over the past couple of years as we embarked on our podcasting journey. What began as a creative outlet during the pandemic has blossomed into a source of joy and inspiration for us. We’ve had the pleasure of speaking with remarkable guests and covering essential topics for parents navigating the complexities of raising children and guiding them through college.

While this chapter of our podcasting adventure is coming to a close, we’re excited to announce that a new chapter is beginning! Based on your valuable feedback, we’re transitioning our conversations to YouTube. This change will allow us to interact more directly with you, share our discussions visually, and explore a range of topics—from the challenging to the lighthearted.

Join us on our YouTube channel, KJK_Law, and follow us on Instagram @stonesupler. We’re committed to supporting you through any education-related issues you may face—no one should navigate these challenges alone.

Thank you for being a part of this journey with us. We look forward to continuing our conversations with you!