Real Talk Podcast: The Importance of Interviewing in Title IX Complaints and Crime Reporting

10/11/23 • 27 min

In this episode of Real Talk, KJK Student Defense Attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler are joined by Carrie Hull, who founded the You Have Options Program, nationally recognized for providing reporting options for survivors of sexual violence. Carrie also created the Certified FETI® Program, standardizing trauma interviews. They discuss the importance of utilizing effective interviewing techniques in investigations, specifically within the realms of law enforcement and Title IX cases. They also explore the necessity of gathering accurate information and avoiding biased assumptions through neutral questioning. The role of body language and filtering out implicit bias is also discussed.

Show Notes:

· Carrie’s Background (1:30)

· The FETI framework (2:30)

· The science and study behind FETI (4:15)

· The applications of a FETI interview (5:30)

· How to ask questions using the FETI methodology (7:00)

· Collecting the dots vs connecting the dots (08:30)

· Receiving answers without judgement (10:00)

· Use in different disciplines (11:45)

· How FETI can be used in Title IX cases (13:50)

· The importance of framing an investigation (16:30)

· The role of body language in an interview (18:00)

· How to prevent leading questions (19:45)

· How to filter implicit bias (21:00)

· How a FETI investigation differs (23:00)

· Conclusion (25:20)

Transcript:

Susan Stone: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Christina Subler. We are full-time moms and attorneys bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real candid conversation. Today's episode is gonna focus on a topic that Christina and I really take for granted, and that's the actual interviewing process of somebody who is either reporting a Title IX complaint or a crime.

Kristina Supler: I am excited for today's guest because I think that sometimes when lawyers are brought in for student advisors, in particularly campus Title IX cases, there's so much focus on the hearing. But I know Susan, you and I always talk about how important the interview is, and we spend so much time preparing our students for their interview.

Susan Stone: I agree. And we have seen so many different styles of investigators. It's like snowflakes no two are the same. And I, I really do mean that we've seen people who make our students feel interrogated.

Kristina Supler: Sure. And, and then we've also had, you know, investigators who I felt were very impartial and truly there to just have a conversation to collect evidence.

Susan Stone: On the flip side, you want your investigator to be impartial, but you also want the details to come out and you wanna make sure they circle back and do a thorough investigation and really try to dig out the truth.

Kristina Supler That's right. That's right. Well, I'm excited to speak with today's guest, Carrie Hall. Yeah. Carrie is an Oregon native, a former de detective with the Ashland Police Department and a leading figure in improving law enforcement responses to sexual violence. She created the Certified FETI® Program, which is an interviewing methodology intended to sort of standardize investigative interviews. And through her consultancy, Carrie Hall Consulting, she also offers specialized training to law enforcements across the globe. We're really pleased to have you join us today. Carrie. Welcome. Welcome, Carrie.

Carrie Hull: Well, thanks so much.

Susan Stone: We're gonna start with the first question. We like to go broad and then whittle down called the, is that the funnel approach? Carrie?

Carrie Hull: Funnel Technique. Funnel

Susan Stone: So describe the FETI framework. How's that?

Carrie Hull: Yeah, so FETI stands for the Forensic Experiential Trauma Interview, and it really is made up of a series of principles and foundational, you know, metrics that are on the practitioner. So when we say practitioner, we mean the person who is conducting the interview. We don't have any requirements or any restrictions that are placed on what we consider the participant. We don't view our participants as victims, witnesses, suspects, anything like that, because we really want them to remain and us to remain in the neutral. We are fully just a methodology that is about information collection. So it's been very interesting when I, when I was listening to that introduction and you talking about interacting with some of these different investigators, what I think is such a defining piece for me as an investigator of FETI is that it forces me to stay in the interviewer role and not conflate being an investigator at the same time, whic...

Show Notes:

· Carrie’s Background (1:30)

· The FETI framework (2:30)

· The science and study behind FETI (4:15)

· The applications of a FETI interview (5:30)

· How to ask questions using the FETI methodology (7:00)

· Collecting the dots vs connecting the dots (08:30)

· Receiving answers without judgement (10:00)

· Use in different disciplines (11:45)

· How FETI can be used in Title IX cases (13:50)

· The importance of framing an investigation (16:30)

· The role of body language in an interview (18:00)

· How to prevent leading questions (19:45)

· How to filter implicit bias (21:00)

· How a FETI investigation differs (23:00)

· Conclusion (25:20)

Transcript:

Kristina Supler: Sure. And, and then we've also had, you know, investigators who I felt were very impartial and truly there to just have a conversation to collect evidence.

Carrie Hull: Well, thanks so much.

Susan Stone: We're gonna start with the first question. We like to go broad and then whittle down called the, is that the funnel approach? Carrie?

Carrie Hull: Funnel Technique. Funnel

Susan Stone: So describe the FETI framework. How's that?

Previous Episode

Real Talk Podcast: Hazing Culture And How To Eradicate It

Real Talk podcast is joined by Hank Nuwer, a renowned anti-hazing journalist, author, and scholar with over four decades of experience. He is known for his unwavering dedication to eradicating hazing culture and has authored many influential books on the subject. Hank maintains a comprehensive database of hazing deaths and continues to be a leading voice in raising awareness and advocating for prevention efforts in colleges and beyond. He is a respected authority on hazing and has conducted extensive research and interviews to shed light on this issue.

Show Notes:

● Sharing personal experiences with hazing (01:20)

● Analyzing the role of institutions in hazing prevention (05:10)

● Highlighting the importance of education and awareness (08:15)

● Should schools abolish Greek life or fraternity sororities? (10:25)

● Discussion about different types of hazing (13:00)

● How to define hazing (13.40)

● How hazing manifests in different organizations (15:00)

● Hank discusses his books and plays (19:00)

● Hank discusses future projects (20:30)

● Positive turn around stories from institutions (21:52)

● Experiences at other universities (23:50)

● How can we get coaches involved (25:00)

● How lonliness factors into hazing (26:30)

● Conclusion (28:00)

Transcript:

Kristina Supler: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Christina Supler. We are full-time moms and attorneys bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real, candid conversations.

Susan Stone: Today's podcast is going to tackle the issue of hazing and what a lot of you out there may not know is that Christina and I have looked at hazing from many different perspectives in our career. We have defended accused of hazing. We've actually been asked to help a Greek organization against accusations of hazing. And we have represented victims of hazing. So we have a real 360, don't Christina?

Kristina Supler: We do and we're, as our listeners may know, we're located in Ohio, but we handle cases across the country. And what's interesting is that Ohio has been a real hotbed of this activity, though, of course, it happens in students across the country are dealing with these sorts of issues. So we're excited to jump into this topic today.

Susan Stone: I really am too. And I am super excited about the guest we have. I feel very fortunate. I want all our listeners know before we give our name out that we reach out to him or her. And we just kept at it because I really wanted this guest on the podcast. So with that, why don't you do the intro?

Kristina Supler: Sure. We are joined today by Hank Newer, who is a renowned anti-hazing journalist, author and scholar, known for his unwavering dedication to eradicating hazing culture. With over four decades of experience, he's authored many influential books. He maintains a comprehensive database of hazing deaths. And he continues to be a leading voice in raising awareness and advocating for prevention efforts in colleges and beyond. Welcome, Hank. We're so happy to have you with us today.

Hank Newer: Thank you. I'm very pleased to be here.

Susan Stone: And I got to add. We just learned Hank lives in Alaska. So we got a little northern exposure going on here. So I love it. But with Hank, let's kick it off. How did hazing become your career focus?

Hank Newer: Not because I was hazed, but because I was at the University of Nevada, Reno. And we had a hazing death that was just off campus. But I had seen the initiation. At that time, hazing was rampant, not against the law in a lot of places. I had seen the initiation on campus. And then at a campus bar, I saw someone passed out at a pool table. He was foaming at the mouth. The organization was called the Sun Downers. And their alumni are some of the leading citizens in Nevada. The initiation consisted of making people drink ever clear. And they would throw a match at their lips. So a lot of people were--

Susan Stone: Oh my gosh.

Hank Newer: Yeah, that was supposed to be funny.

Kristina Supler: That's shocking.

Hank Newer: It was. So the person that was foaming I got them to take him and walk him. But I think if I had called the police or so, they wouldn't have done it another time. And John Davies might still be alive. So they did it one more time. And they did this one, not in public. They went to an Indian reservation. And John Davies died, and another pledge was without oxygen for a while. And so I've done database reporting since the 70s. So I made a database of all the hazing deaths that were out there. And editor friend of mine put me in touch with Human Behavior Magazine. And so in the mid 70s, that first article came out. And I kept the database going ever since.

Susan Stone: Wow. I can't even respond.

Kristina Su...

Next Episode

Real Talk Podcast: The Current Digital Landscape

In this episode of Real Talk, KJK Student Defense Attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler discuss the digital landscape, what parents should be aware of and how to promote healthy offline connections.

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Show Notes:

· Discussing the digital landscape, what’s new and what parents should be aware of (00:45)

· What platforms are commonly used? (1:20)

· Description and explanation of Snapchat (2:15)

· What can parents do at home (3:20)

· Cell phones and driving (4:35)

· How phones effect sleep (5:20)

· How to help promote healthy offline connections (6:10)

· How the pandemic effected digital habits (7:15)

· Offline activities (8:30)

· Being aware of online bullying (9:20)

· Social media and FOMO (9:50)

Transcript

Susan Stone: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Christina Soupler. We are full-time moms and attorneys, bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real, candid conversation. After school time is happening, and I think you and I need to explore what we saw last year to helpfully give our listeners some food for thoughts this school year for younger kids, the middle school and high school crowd.

Kristina Supler: Today we're going to talk about the digital landscape and what parents need to know and what's going on out here.

Susan Stone: Now what's new? And what's new today will not be new, it changes every day. So I think our first piece of advice to parents is stay on it.

Kristina Supler: And don't give up hope. I mean so often we hear, I don't know, I'm not good with tech these kids in their phones, who knows. But I mean at the end of the day, you don't have to know the intricacies of how to post the most perfect video. You just have to understand the platforms that kids are using and generally what's going on and what are the dangers of those platforms really.

Susan Stone: So to prepare, I called my rising senior and said, "What is everyone on your grade on?" I thought I'd start there and I wasn't surprised. We knew the answers.

Kristina Supler: TikTok and Snapchat.

Susan Stone: TikTok and Snapchat. Everybody is both viewing and making videos on TikTok, TikTok, is trending really well. And that B-roll, B-real, right, Kristina?

Kristina Supler: B-real.

Susan Stone: B-real. Real film. Got it. Where they would send a notification and then you have to take a quick picture. What was the purpose of that? That was a new one.

Kristina Supler: I guess to be spontaneous and be your authentic self versus having these perfectly choreographed videos. And anyway, it's always changing. But there's ways for parents to find out what's going on out there.

Susan Stone: Word of advice on snapchat. So the whole idea of parents for those of you who don't know is that you send a snap, I guess that's what it's called, and then it disappears. Does it?

Kristina Supler: I would say yes and no or sometimes. I mean, it seems like every case that we have there's an issue with snapchat and sometimes messages are recoverable, believe it or not, through backup files and other means and forensic analysis. But often they're not. And, you know, again, sometimes it's a blessing that messages can't be recovered. And then you know, sometimes you're like, oh, I would do anything if we could track down these messages. So, you know, I think snapchat it's just one of those things where the bottom line should be, you don't know what's going to happen. Just be thoughtful about what you put out into the universe.

Susan Stone: And don't assume just because you send a snap to somebody that it is going to disappear before someone has had a time, a chance to take a screenshot. Show and reproduce and send off that snap. Careful what you snap in a snap.

Kristina Supler: Amen, there you go. What about, I mean, what can parents do at home to educate their children about online safety and then model healthy behaviors?

Susan Stone: Well, I don't like lecturing. It never works. I think modeling healthy behaviors,

Kristina Supler: I totally agree.

Susan Stone: And I just share one pet peeve that I see all the time. I hate phones at the dinner table.

Kristina Supler: I agree. And in my house, we're actually very strict about that because if we weren't, there absolutely be a cell phone and then iPad at the dinner table. There'd be a YouTube video playing in the background and my husband and I was like, turn it off, turn it off. And it's just sort of like, eyeroll, okay, mom...