Nicky & AJ Part 3 of 4: When Shame Gets In The Way

05/09/25 • 47 min

Is My Child A Monster? A Parenting Therapy Podcast

We take you “behind the scenes” of what happened before the session officially started. This episode with Nicky and AJ begins with a communication breakdown. We all struggle at times communicating with our kids, our partners or other family members. You will learn what happens when shame is in the drivers seat of your life and when shame runs in the family like with AJ and their 11 year old daughter, Lily. The episode also emphasizes the importance of vulnerability for personal growth and effective parenting. Leslie introduces the Dialectic Behavior Skill called DEAR MAN and puts it into practice.

Time Stamps

3:50 How to talk without shaming and blaming or without ignoring the problem

8:02 and 26:05 Talking about trauma is very difficult and can be very anxiety provoking

11:06 Description of the DBT DEARMAN skill

Describe, Express, Ask for what you want, Reinforce it for the other person, Maintain focus, Appear confident, Negotiate when needed

16:10 Example of using the DEAR MAN

23:32 and 40:40 Timing is very important when trying to have a conversation

24:30 People who feel invalidated react with anger, shutting down or start defending themselves

27:05 Remember to learn from “misbehavior” - “what can I do differently next time?”

32:10 Shame is an emotion that makes us feel like “a bad person” vs guilt is a justified emotion when our behavior goes against our values

32:06 and 33:00 Dialectic Behavior Therapy’s Opposite Action

Go opposite to the urge of the emotion
The urge associated with shame is to hide
Go opposite to shame when it is not justified
Go all the way

35:27 Example of using Opposite Action Skill

38:26 AJ’s aha moment that both he and his daughter can feel attacked when someone wants you to do something

43:58 Practice being vulnerable

Leslie-ism: Give yourself permission to be vulnerable.

Resources:

Dialectic Behavior Therapy DEARMAN Skill by DBT.Tools

Dialectic Behavior Therapy Opposite Action Skill by DBT.Tools

For a full transcript of this episode and more information about the host visit https://lesliecohenrubury.com/podcasts/ . You can also follow Leslie’s work on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. Join the conversation with your own questions and parenting experiences.

Credits: Is My Child a Monster? is produced by Alletta Cooper, Camila Salazar, and Leslie Cohen-Rubury. Theme music is by L-Ray Music. Graphics and Website Design by Brien O’Reilly. Transcriptions by Eric Rubury. A special thanks to everyone who contributes their wisdom and support to make this possible.

Time Stamps

3:50 How to talk without shaming and blaming or without ignoring the problem

8:02 and 26:05 Talking about trauma is very difficult and can be very anxiety provoking

11:06 Description of the DBT DEARMAN skill

Describe, Express, Ask for what you want, Reinforce it for the other person, Maintain focus, Appear confident, Negotiate when needed

16:10 Example of using the DEAR MAN

23:32 and 40:40 Timing is very important when trying to have a conversation

24:30 People who feel invalidated react with anger, shutting down or start defending themselves

27:05 Remember to learn from “misbehavior” - “what can I do differently next time?”

32:10 Shame is an emotion that makes us feel like “a bad person” vs guilt is a justified emotion when our behavior goes against our values

32:06 and 33:00 Dialectic Behavior Therapy’s Opposite Action

Go opposite to the urge of the emotion
The urge associated with shame is to hide
Go opposite to shame when it is not justified
Go all the way

35:27 Example of using Opposite Action Skill

38:26 AJ’s aha moment that both he and his daughter can feel attacked when someone wants you to do something

43:58 Practice being vulnerable

Leslie-ism: Give yourself permission to be vulnerable.

Resources:

Dialectic Behavior Therapy DEARMAN Skill by DBT.Tools

Dialectic Behavior Therapy Opposite Action Skill by DBT.Tools

Previous Episode

Nicky & AJ Part 2 of 4: Stopping Generational Trauma

How do you deal with your child’s anger and defiant behaviors? One place to start is to look at what you as parents bring to the table and how that impacts your child. This is the second session with Nicky and AJ who are seeking help for their 11 year old daughter Lily. We cover a wide range of topics from the emotional topics of trauma and anger to learning some practical communication skills.

Time Stamps

3:00 Pausing, listening, validating and being curious was effective for communication with their teen

7:08 The DBT GIVE skill - a skill to tend to the relationship (see handout below)

8:34 The DBT STOP skill (see handout below)

11:08 It's okay to say to your child “I don’t know what to do in this moment”. Be honest

13:59 Trauma work for Childhood Trauma - chronic invalidation

Trauma lives in your body (See Book Link below)
14:55 Definition of Trauma
21:55 Treatment options (See Handout below)

19:50 Parents who want to stop the the cycle of trauma, cycle of fear, the cycle of invalidation so it doesn’t get passed on to your child

20:20 Parents who want to do better, who need to do better so they can break that cycle

20:30 Every step makes a difference

21:12 Talking about trauma alone does not treat trauma - Analogy to having a splinter and talking about the splinter

22:15 Mistaken Core Beliefs that develop with traumatic experiences - I am not safe, I am not capable, I am not loveable

25:00 Parents can take responsibility for their actions when you yell or invalidate their child

27:17 People/kids may shut down or get angry when they feel invalidated. Ask the question, “What did I just say that may have been invalidating to you?”

28:44 The parenting dialectic: I am trying my best AND I still need to do more

30:25 Three Step Apology to take responsibility when you behave in a way that is problematic

31;58 Assess the prompting events that lead to her emotional dsyregulation

34:10 Defiance and anger can be a secondary emotion to anxiety or overwhelm

32:41 Use context such as timing when trying to understand problematic behavior

40:49 Habituation is the act of getting used to something through repetition

41::00 Dialectic thinking to help her get into the shower (examples)

43:15 Parenting GOAL: Is to connect to your child by making sure they feel understood and respected.

Leslie-ism: Take a stand and STOP harmful generational patterns

Resources:

The Body Keeps Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk, MD

The Three Step Apology by Leslie Cohen-Rubury

Dialectic Behavior Therapy: The GIVE Skill Handout and Practice Sheet by DBT.Tools

Dialectic Behavior Therapy. The STOP Skill Handout and Practice Sheet by DBT.Tools

Trauma Treatment Resources:

Dialectic Behavior Therapy Prolonged Exposure - DBT- PE
Prolonged Exposure
Cognitive Processing Therapy - CPT

For a full transcript of this episode and more information about the host visit https://lesliecohenrubury.com/podcasts/ . You can also follow Leslie’s work on Facebook,

Next Episode

Bonus Episode: Making Hard Conversations Easier with the DEAR MAN Skill

Making requests, saying no, and having hard conversations is part of all relationships. And it's rather easy to see how common misunderstandings and conflict ensues in our interpersonal relationships. That's because we are not born with accurate and effective communications skills. This mini bonus episode is about learning and practicing the DBT skill called DEAR MAN. This is a conversation between Leslie and her producer, Alletta Cooper where they give an in-depth description of what the skill is and then how to put it into practice.

Time Stamps

1:41 DEAR MAN GIVE FAST is the DBT acronym to help us communicate accurately and more effectively

DEAR MAN - The goal is to get your objective met
GIVE Skills - The goal is about tending to the relationship
FAST Skills - The goal is to focus on your self-respect

4:51 DEARMAN skill described in detail

4:51 D = Describe the facts - the who, what, when and where
5:35 E = Express your feelings
5:55 A = Ask for what you want - make your request
7:03 R = Reinforce what’s in it for the other person
7:55 M = Maintain your focus
8:28 A = Appear confident
8:32 N = Negotiate if necessary -sometimes you have to give a little to get what you want

6:40 Using the skill helps you stay in wise mind

9:32 Role play not using the DEAR MAN skill

11:29 Role play using the DEAR MAN skill

14:38 Timing is an important factor when having difficult conversation

15:10 Using time limits on having conversation is often very effective

16:52 When to use DEAR MAN

19:00 Write it down and practice it over and over again

Resources:

Leslie’s Handout on DEAR MAN DBT Skill based on example in the bonus episode and worksheet for practice

DEARMAN How to communicate Assertively - DBT-RU

DBT Skill: The Most Effective Way to Make a Request by Sunrise Treatment Center