Untangled Faith

What happened when Lori Adams-Brown and Lori Harding courageously revealed the truth about abuse of power in the church?

Lori Adams-Brown shares more about speaking on the record with Julie Roys about her experience with Pastor Andy Wood, successor to Rick Warren at Saddleback Church.

Lori Harding shares about speaking on the record with Julie Roys about her experience with Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church. "We do what we can with what we know, and that is a courageous act of faith." -Lori Adams-Brown Lori Adams-Brown and Lori Harding are two courageous women who have gone on the record with a journalist to share their experiences with abusive and unhealthy leaders in the church. They both have a deep love for Jesus and a desire to bring justice and healing to those who have been hurt. Lori Adams-Brown and Lori Harding found the courage to speak out despite the personal risk. In this episode, you will learn the following: 1. What was it like to wait for their stories to be shared? 2. What they would have done differently. 3. Advice to those considering speaking out.

Links:

Lori Harding's story-

https://julieroys.com/podcast/survivor-claims-spiritual-abuse-at-coral-ridge-presbyterian-part-1/

https://julieroys.com/podcast/survivor-claims-spiritual-abuse-at-coral-ridge-presbyterian-part-2/

Lori Adams-Brown story-

https://julieroys.com/alleged-victims-challenge-report-clearing-rick-warren-successor-abuse/

https://julieroys.com/former-staffers-expose-bullying-rick-warren-successor-andy-wood/

Related Episodes:

https://untangledfaithpodcast.com/2023/02/08/69going-on-the-record-with-lori-adams-brown-lori-harding-trust-trauma-telling-your-story/

https://untangledfaithpodcast.com/2021/12/15/26-what-about-bob-an-interview-with-religion-journalist-bob-smietana/

Support the show:

Subscribe to my newsletter: https://untangledfaith.substack.com

Join us on Patreon: https://patreon.com/untangledfaith

This podcast is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. For more information and for 10% off your first month, visit Faithful Counseling- https://faithfulcounseling.com/untangled

Where you can find me:

Youtube channel- https://youtube.com/channel/UCPfFk-I6QShXXvEpSFaJOvg

https://untangledfaithpodcast.com

https://instagram.com/untangledfaith

https://instagram.com/amyhenningfritz

https://twitter.com/faithuntangled

https://twitter.com/amyfritz

Host/Creator: Amy Fritz

Producers:

Michele Pjanic

Phil and Susan Perdue

Pam Forsythe

Chelle Taylor

"We did this out of love to protect sheep. Exposing the darkness to the light is how it happens." - Lori Adams-Brown

Some of you have a story to tell that you’ve never told anyone.

And some of you are wondering if that story should find it’s way to a journalist.

Where would you go?

How does that even work?

What all goes into the process and what do you need to know to make it out on the other side?

Today I’m joined by two friends who answer those questions as we pull back the curtain to show you what it’s like to go on the record for a journalist.

Lori Adams-Brown and Lori Harding are two courageous women who have gone on the record with journalist Julie Roys to share their stories of abuse in the church. In this episode:

1. How they decided to go public with their story of abuse. What was the process like? What were their concerns? How did they navigate the process? 2. The role of investigative journalism in exposing the darkness and restoring the church: How did they choose a reporter? What were the expectations? What was the interview process like? 3. The consequences of speaking out: How did they prepare for the backlash? What were some of the criticisms they faced?

Links:

Lori Harding's story-

https://julieroys.com/podcast/survivor-claims-spiritual-abuse-at-coral-ridge-presbyterian-part-1/

https://julieroys.com/podcast/survivor-claims-spiritual-abuse-at-coral-ridge-presbyterian-part-2/

Lori Adams-Brown story-

https://julieroys.com/alleged-victims-challenge-report-clearing-rick-warren-successor-abuse/

https://julieroys.com/former-staffers-expose-bullying-rick-warren-successor-andy-wood/

Related Episodes:

https://untangledfaithpodcast.com/2021/12/15/26-what-about-bob-an-interview-with-religion-journalist-bob-smietana/

Support the show:

Subscribe to my newsletter: https://untangledfaith.substack.com

Join us on Patreon: https://patreon.com/untangledfaith

This podcast is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. For more information and for 10% off your first month, visit Faithful Counseling- https://faithfulcounseling.com/untangled

Where you can find me:

Youtube channel- https://youtube.com/channel/UCPfFk-I6QShXXvEpSFaJOvg

https://untangledfaithpodcast.com

https://instagram.com/untangledfaith

https://instagram.com/amyhenningfritz

https://twitter.com/faithuntangled

https://twitter.com/amyfritz

Host/Creator: Amy Fritz

Producers:

Michele Pjanic

Phil and Susan Perdue

Pam Forsythe

Chelle Taylor

Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith

Website: Untangled Faith

Author, licensed therapist, spiritual director, and speaker Chuck DeGroat joins Amy Fritz on the Untangled Faith Podcast.

Chuck DeGroat is the author of the book When Narcissism Comes to Church which came out in 2020. The paperback edition releases soon making this a perfect time for a conversation with him on the podcast.

Amy and Chuck talk about all things narcissism including the many faces of narcissism in faith communities, what systemic narcissism looks like, and what to do when you hear reports that a leader you admire has hurt someone. How do you know what is true?

Time stamps:

[00:03:13] Amy’s experience on the launch team for Chuck’s book, When Narcissism Comes to Church.

[00:04:48] What is narcissism?

[00:06:53] Systemic narcissism

[00:11:58] Do our church systems attract narcissistic leaders?

[00:17:21] How does Chuck deal with resistance from pastors to seeing their own unhealth?

[00:18:40] Suggestions for those who want to build healthy faith communities

[00:24:50] Different ways narcissism presents itself.

[00:28:13] What if someone tells me they have had painful experiences with a pastor who is kind to me?

[00:31:40] Encouragement to leaders to be proactive in regard to their church culture health.

[00:37:05] False vulnerability and performative vulnerability.

00:43:26] In a complex situation, how do you differentiate between who is the victim and who is the abuser?

Resources:

When Narcissism Comes to Church

GRACE

Narcissism and the System it Breeds by Dr. Diane Langberg

Redeeming Power

A Church Called Tov

Something’s Not Right

This podcast is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. For more information and for 10% off your first month, visit Faithful Counseling here.

Are you interested in starting a podcast? Our sponsor, Libsyn, makes it easy. As a friend of the Untangled Faith podcast, when you sign up with Libsyn, you get your first month of hosting for free. Sign up here and use the code: FRIEND.

This episode is made possible by the support of the Untangled Faith membership community. For more information and to access the bonus audio with Chuck DeGroat visit: Untangled Faith Podcast is creating a podcast. | Patreon

Newsletter signup

Paypal Donation

Twitter:

Amy Fritz

Untangled Faith

Instagram:

Amy Fritz

Untangled Faith

Website:

Untangled Faith

Host/Creator: Amy Fritz

Producer: Michelle Pjanic

Related Episodes:

Untangled Faith: 38: Misunderstood: Are We “Dogging” on the Church? Guests: Jenai Auman and Mary DeMuth on Apple Podcasts

This episode includes mention of guns and a reference to an assault allegation. Please take care when listening.

Wade Mullen, impression management expert, joins Amy Fritz to share his observations of a Ramsey Solutions employee meeting. Wade Mullen shares how impression management works and points out some specific tactics that some people or organizations may use when they feel like their image is threatened.

Disclaimer: The observations that Dr. Wade Mullen shares are subjective and are his opinions based on his knowledge of impression management. This sort of analysis is most effective when it is done over a long period of time with multiple people reviewing the data.

[00:02:52] Background

[00:06:16] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 1.

[00:13:28] Wade Mullen observations. Appealing to cultural norms and standards. Generational norms.

[00:16:04] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 2.

[00:16:20] Language that stigmatizes others.

[00:18:35] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 3.

[00:19:10] Legitimizing. Comparisons. Define the situation.

[00:24:15] The different categories of people taking in these messages. Condemning the condemner.

[00:28:16] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 4.

[00:28:48] The difficulty of giving critical feedback.

[00:29:27] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 5.

[00:30:21] Wade Mullen observations. Language of self-promotion. Creating the Us v. Them dichotomy.

[00:33:22] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 6. (Mention of assault allegation)

[00:34:08] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 7.

[00:34:25] Condemning the condemner. Exaggeration. Negative events misrepresented.

[00:37:02] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 8.

[00:37:51] Got Your Six meeting clip from May 2019.

[00:38:51] MUM effect.

[00:40:54] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 9.

[00:41:57] Intimidating messaging. Unhealthy preoccupation with the identity at the top.

[00:44:57] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 10.

[00:45:08] Appeal to cultural norms.

[00:45:49] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 11.

[00:47:16] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 12.

[00:48:33] What are we called to be loyal to?

[00:50:14] Ad break

[00:51:19] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 13.

[00:51:43] Self-promotion and organizational promotion.

[00:53:30] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 14.

[00:55:47] Prosocial behavior. Distancing.

[00:57:02] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 15.

[00:58:24] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 16.

[00:59:38] Stigmatizing.

[01:00:27] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 17.

[01:02:23] Belittling legitimate concerns.

[01:03:31] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 18.

[01:05:38] Dave Ramsey meeting audio part 19.

[01:06:10] Is there a freedom to express concerns?

[01:07:26] Advice for those in this sort of environment. Sensemaking.

[01:11:56] Advice for organizations.

Resources:

Wade Mullen

Cubicles of Charm, Crucibles of Condemnation

Erving Goffman book.

Nashville Scene Article

Daily Beast Article

This podcast is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. For more information and for 10% off your first month, visit Faithful Counseling here.

Are you interested in starting a podcast? Our sponsor, Libsyn makes it easy. As a friend of the Untangled Faith podcast, when you sign up with Libsyn, you get your first month of hosting for free. Sign up here and use the code: FRIEND.

This episode is made possible by the support of the Untangled Faith membership community. For more information and to access the bonus audio visit: Untangled Faith Podcast is creating a podcast. | Patreon

Newsletter signup

Paypal Donation

Twitter: