63: Why do We Punish Domestic Violence Survivors? w/Alexandra Bailey
Explicit content warning
11/09/22 • 63 min
1 Listener
When does a victim become a suspect? Very often, our legal system cares about someone's status as a victim when it allows the system to incarcerate someone. As soon as you stand in that goal, any harm done to you matters not.
On today's episode, Hunter spoke with Alexandra Bailey, Campaign Strategist to End Life Imprisonment at the Sentencing Project, to discuss the ways our legal system punishes Domestic Violence Survivors. Specifically, they dive deep into the "Failure to Protect laws" that showcase the latent sexism prevalent in our legal system and the twisted ways in which prosecutors ignore self defense claims when it aids their goal of securing higher conviction rates.
While some states offer hope at a future where these cases are not happening around the country, places like Oklahoma remind us there is a long uphill battle that people like Alexandra are at the forefront of to end our brutally harsh punishment bureaucracy.
Key Topics and Takeaways:
- How Alexandra got into her line of work. [5:54]
- An overview of some laws that the Sentencing Project is trying to reform. [7:53]
- Ways women are uniquely affected by the legal system. [12:20]
- The DVSJA law. [23:14]
- Why having a clear and trauma-informed legal standard is important. [29:46]
- Failure to protect laws. [37:24]
- Why the policy needs to be changed in Oklahoma. [53:07]
- What the Sentencing Project is all about. [57:23]
Guest:
Alexandra Bailey, Campaign Strategist to End Life Imprisonment, Sentencing ProjectResources:
Sentencing Project DVSJA Bill News
She never hurt her kids. So why is she in prison?
Memorable Quotes:
“It doesn't really matter the circumstances. Women are seen by the legal system as being less credible.” (12:25, Alexandra)
“As of 2020, 47 out of every 100,000 women were in prison, so this is not a failure of any one particular individual. This is the failure of a system that has not provided what families need in order to succeed.” (17:50, Alexandra)
“God bless the public defenders of America because they are so frequently trying to explain trauma to deaf ears. So shout out to all of them.” (29:30, Alexandra)
“There's no shame in improving things. There is no shame in going back and learning and growing. We do it as individuals. There's no reason that this system can't do it too.” (36:32, Alexandra)
“This system takes tools with good intention and wields them in the worst possible way.” (39:11, Alexandra)
“I think we need to start looking at situations as tragedies as opposed to an opportunity to nail someone.” (47:12, Alexandra)
Contact Hunter Parnell:
When does a victim become a suspect? Very often, our legal system cares about someone's status as a victim when it allows the system to incarcerate someone. As soon as you stand in that goal, any harm done to you matters not.
On today's episode, Hunter spoke with Alexandra Bailey, Campaign Strategist to End Life Imprisonment at the Sentencing Project, to discuss the ways our legal system punishes Domestic Violence Survivors. Specifically, they dive deep into the "Failure to Protect laws" that showcase the latent sexism prevalent in our legal system and the twisted ways in which prosecutors ignore self defense claims when it aids their goal of securing higher conviction rates.
While some states offer hope at a future where these cases are not happening around the country, places like Oklahoma remind us there is a long uphill battle that people like Alexandra are at the forefront of to end our brutally harsh punishment bureaucracy.
Key Topics and Takeaways:
- How Alexandra got into her line of work. [5:54]
- An overview of some laws that the Sentencing Project is trying to reform. [7:53]
- Ways women are uniquely affected by the legal system. [12:20]
- The DVSJA law. [23:14]
- Why having a clear and trauma-informed legal standard is important. [29:46]
- Failure to protect laws. [37:24]
- Why the policy needs to be changed in Oklahoma. [53:07]
- What the Sentencing Project is all about. [57:23]
Guest:
Alexandra Bailey, Campaign Strategist to End Life Imprisonment, Sentencing ProjectResources:
Sentencing Project DVSJA Bill News
She never hurt her kids. So why is she in prison?
Memorable Quotes:
“It doesn't really matter the circumstances. Women are seen by the legal system as being less credible.” (12:25, Alexandra)
“As of 2020, 47 out of every 100,000 women were in prison, so this is not a failure of any one particular individual. This is the failure of a system that has not provided what families need in order to succeed.” (17:50, Alexandra)
“God bless the public defenders of America because they are so frequently trying to explain trauma to deaf ears. So shout out to all of them.” (29:30, Alexandra)
“There's no shame in improving things. There is no shame in going back and learning and growing. We do it as individuals. There's no reason that this system can't do it too.” (36:32, Alexandra)
“This system takes tools with good intention and wields them in the worst possible way.” (39:11, Alexandra)
“I think we need to start looking at situations as tragedies as opposed to an opportunity to nail someone.” (47:12, Alexandra)
Contact Hunter Parnell:
Previous Episode
62: Why Does the Aurora City Council Want to Dismantle the Public Defender Office w/Doug Wilson
Today, Hunter sat down once again with Doug Wilson, Chief Public Defender in the Aurora Municipal Public Defender Office, to discuss what has unfolded in Aurora, Colorado over the past year. Often, people will ask the question, “Why do you think we don’t fund Public Defender Offices the way we should?” While there are many potential answers to that question, this episode highlights one of the most important ones: Policy makers have an exponentially more tough time incarcerating people when there is a zealous advocate both in and out of the court room for the rights of the accused.
Starting back to last year, the Aurora Public Defender Office has been instrumental in highlighting the misconduct and illegal activity of the prosecution and police of the city. At the same time, the city council marched on towards its mission to incarcerate as many people as possible in a misguided effort to make their community safer. At every step of the way, Doug and his office have been pushing back against the city’s goals.
Now it seems, the city is tired of the pushback. Tune in to hear how the city is attempting to use the language of cost efficiency to mask their true intentions: dismantling the most powerful advocate against their march towards increased incarceration.
Guests:
Doug Wilson, Chief Public Defender, Aurora, Colorado Municipal Public Defender Office
Key Topics and Takeaways:
The City Attorney’s Brady violations and the PDO’s role in exposing them [8:22]
How does the PDO impede the goal of the city council [20:41]
How did the city support its mandatory minimum sentencing [25:13]
Is the city council now seeking to dismantle the office? [30:20]
The response from the community [38:03]
The media’s failure to cover this topic [44:30]
Why the fiscal efficiency argument is bogus [52:00]
What is next for Aurora [59:25]
Resources:
Aurora city attorneys review, notify impacted defendants of lacking ‘Brady letters’
Aurora lawmakers give 1st OK to mandatory jail time for shoplifting, despite lack of cost data
Aurora lawmakers impose mandatory 3 days in jail for shoplifting more than $300
Impacts of Mandatory Minimum Sentencing:
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/end-mandatory-minimums
ACLU Report on Municipal Courts Colorado
Contact Hunter Parnell:
Next Episode
64: How Public Defense can Win the Media Battle w/Maggie Shepard
1 RecommendationsHow can journalists and public defenders work together to bring awareness to the real issues plaguing our court system? Today, Hunter spoke with Maggie Shepard, Director of Communications at the New Mexico Law Offices of the Public Defender, to discuss how public defenders can use media relations to deepen their connection with the community they are working to protect.
A policy can only be effective if it has adequate momentum behind it and with most offices unwilling to comment publicly, it makes it difficult for the public to fully grasp the issues. There is a lot of bureaucracy in our court system but it does serve a purpose, to protect the rights of the accused. Everytime a public defender refuses to make a comment they miss the opportunity to highlight the deeper issues surrounding the case, which can be done while honoring the anonymity of the client.
Today’s conversation highlights the real need for communication between the public and the courts and between journalists and public defenders.
Guest:
Maggie Shepard, Director of Communications, New Mexico Law Offices of the Public Defender
Key Takeaways:
- Utilizing media relations to fight at the systemic level [2:30]
- Maggie’s decision to leave journalism to do media relation training [8:10]
- How narrative and perception shapes reality [10:15]
- Courtroom journalism rarely grants time to scrutinize the power structure at play [14:30]
- Deciphering who counts as an “official” source? [19:00]
- A different way for journalists to get a powerful and evocative story [28:00]
- Teaching public defenders to speak to the broader story unfolding [34:00]
- Policy is only as good as the awareness and pressure behind it [39:14]
- Bringing media attention to the positive effects of good reform [42:50]
- Using language in a way that reminds the public of the process [50:00]
- It’s possible for public defenders to have media relations without being quoted [53:00]
- Prison reform is the biggest issue facing New Mexico today [55:40]
- Teaching journalists what they don’t learn in school [58:00]
Resources:
Contact Maggie
Contact Heather at NAPD
https://www.lopdnm.us/media-ipra/
Memorable Quotes:
“I was tired of being part of the propaganda machine, honestly, I was tired of playing a harmful role in the narratives that I was telling, so I left my job.” [8:19] -Shepard
“There is a desire, within the department, within the attorneys, to learn how to do this better and there is very clearly a need in the community to have better access to the public defense world and for the information we have as public defenders to get out into the world, into our communities.” [9:27] -Shepard
“There’s not a lot of thoughtfulness beyond what's in front of me, the actors and the actions and that’s what we focus on. We might call into question the after and the action but we’re not calling into question the machine, the bigger power structure that’s there.” [14:50] -Shepard
“Good policy, not heard by anybody, isn’t good policy.It’s just a good idea that nobody heard and that's where I think a lot of public defenders and people who want to push these policies fail to understand that policy gets pushed when people hear about it and apply pressure.” [39:14] -Parnell
Contact Hunter Parnell:
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