Public Defenseless

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64: How Public Defense can Win the Media Battle w/Maggie Shepard

Public Defenseless

11/11/22 • 61 min

How can journalists and public defenders work together to bring awareness to the real issues plaguing our court system? Today, Hunter spoke with Maggie Shepard, Director of Communications at the New Mexico Law Offices of the Public Defender, to discuss how public defenders can use media relations to deepen their connection with the community they are working to protect.

A policy can only be effective if it has adequate momentum behind it and with most offices unwilling to comment publicly, it makes it difficult for the public to fully grasp the issues. There is a lot of bureaucracy in our court system but it does serve a purpose, to protect the rights of the accused. Everytime a public defender refuses to make a comment they miss the opportunity to highlight the deeper issues surrounding the case, which can be done while honoring the anonymity of the client.

Today’s conversation highlights the real need for communication between the public and the courts and between journalists and public defenders.

Guest:

Maggie Shepard, Director of Communications, New Mexico Law Offices of the Public Defender

Key Takeaways:

Utilizing media relations to fight at the systemic level [2:30]
Maggie’s decision to leave journalism to do media relation training [8:10]
How narrative and perception shapes reality [10:15]
Courtroom journalism rarely grants time to scrutinize the power structure at play [14:30]
Deciphering who counts as an “official” source? [19:00]
A different way for journalists to get a powerful and evocative story [28:00]
Teaching public defenders to speak to the broader story unfolding [34:00]
Policy is only as good as the awareness and pressure behind it [39:14]
Bringing media attention to the positive effects of good reform [42:50]
Using language in a way that reminds the public of the process [50:00]
It’s possible for public defenders to have media relations without being quoted [53:00]
Prison reform is the biggest issue facing New Mexico today [55:40]
Teaching journalists what they don’t learn in school [58:00]

Resources:

Contact Maggie

Contact Heather at NAPD

https://www.lopdnm.us/media-ipra/

Memorable Quotes:

“I was tired of being part of the propaganda machine, honestly, I was tired of playing a harmful role in the narratives that I was telling, so I left my job.” [8:19] -Shepard

“There is a desire, within the department, within the attorneys, to learn how to do this better and there is very clearly a need in the community to have better access to the public defense world and for the information we have as public defenders to get out into the world, into our communities.” [9:27] -Shepard

“There’s not a lot of thoughtfulness beyond what's in front of me, the actors and the actions and that’s what we focus on. We might call into question the after and the action but we’re not calling into question the machine, the bigger power structure that’s there.” [14:50] -Shepard

“Good policy, not heard by anybody, isn’t good policy.It’s just a good idea that nobody heard and that's where I think a lot of public defenders and people who want to push these policies fail to understand that policy gets pushed when people hear about it and apply pressure.” [39:14] -Parnell

Contact Hunter Parnell:

https://www.yolocounty.org/government/general-government-departments/law-justice/public-defender

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79: What Could Yolo County Public Defenders Do if They Weren't Funded $16 Million Less than the Prosecutors? w/Tracie Olson

Public Defenseless

01/03/23 • 73 min

While not a small county, Yolo County California does not have the size or resources to match the major metropolitan areas of San Francisco, Oakland, L.A., or Sacramento. Yet somehow, Tracie Olson, Chief Public Defender Yolo County, and her team at the Yolo County Public Defender Office are able to maintain a strong holistic public defense practice.

Despite a $16 million dollar budget shortfall compared to the prosecutors, Tracie has been able to establish her office as a pillar in the community. If the county and the state of California were to finally fund the office at even 85% of what the prosecutor’s office received, the health and safety of Yolo County could reach heights no one thought possible!

Guest:

Tracie Olson, Chief Public Defender, Yolo County Public Defender Office

Key Topics:

How Tracie got started in Indigent Defense [8:30]

Demographics and layout of Yolo County California [13:25]

Where the Yolo County Public Defender Office sits California’s Public Defense System [15:30]

Funding disparity between California Prosecutors and Public Defenders, and what Tracie can do despite the disparity [17:43]

Community Response to the disparity in Prosecutor and Public Defense Funding [21:20]

The impacts of the “tough on crime” media narratives over the past few years on Yolo County [27:50]

Trying to address the housing issue in Yolo County [37:30]

What can’t the Yolo County PD office do because of the funding shortage and how is the community hurt as a result [41:25]

Making Public Defense more than a “check box” system [48:20]

Yolo County PD community outreach programs [54:45]

What does California need to do to support public defense? [1:05:45]

Resources:

Yolo County Public Defender Office

Yolo County Public Defender Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/YoloPublicDefense/?modal=admin_todo_tour

Yolo County Public Defender Twitter

https://twitter.com/yolopubdefense

Contact Hunter Parnell:

@PublicDefenselessPodcast

@PDefenselessPod

Sentencing Project DVSJA Bill News

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63: Why do We Punish Domestic Violence Survivors? w/Alexandra Bailey

Public Defenseless

11/09/22 • 63 min

When does a victim become a suspect? Very often, our legal system cares about someone's status as a victim when it allows the system to incarcerate someone. As soon as you stand in that goal, any harm done to you matters not.

On today's episode, Hunter spoke with Alexandra Bailey, Campaign Strategist to End Life Imprisonment at the Sentencing Project, to discuss the ways our legal system punishes Domestic Violence Survivors. Specifically, they dive deep into the "Failure to Protect laws" that showcase the latent sexism prevalent in our legal system and the twisted ways in which prosecutors ignore self defense claims when it aids their goal of securing higher conviction rates.

While some states offer hope at a future where these cases are not happening around the country, places like Oklahoma remind us there is a long uphill battle that people like Alexandra are at the forefront of to end our brutally harsh punishment bureaucracy.

Key Topics and Takeaways:

How Alexandra got into her line of work. [5:54]
An overview of some laws that the Sentencing Project is trying to reform. [7:53]
Ways women are uniquely affected by the legal system. [12:20]
The DVSJA law. [23:14]
Why having a clear and trauma-informed legal standard is important. [29:46]
Failure to protect laws. [37:24]
Why the policy needs to be changed in Oklahoma. [53:07]
What the Sentencing Project is all about. [57:23]

Guest:

Alexandra Bailey, Campaign Strategist to End Life Imprisonment, Sentencing Project

Resources:

Oklahoma Failure to Protect

Women’s Prisons Are Filled With Domestic Violence Survivors. A New Type of Law Could Help Them Get Out.

She never hurt her kids. So why is she in prison?

Memorable Quotes:

“It doesn't really matter the circumstances. Women are seen by the legal system as being less credible.” (12:25, Alexandra)

“As of 2020, 47 out of every 100,000 women were in prison, so this is not a failure of any one particular individual. This is the failure of a system that has not provided what families need in order to succeed.” (17:50, Alexandra)

“God bless the public defenders of America because they are so frequently trying to explain trauma to deaf ears. So shout out to all of them.” (29:30, Alexandra)

“There's no shame in improving things. There is no shame in going back and learning and growing. We do it as individuals. There's no reason that this system can't do it too.” (36:32, Alexandra)

“This system takes tools with good intention and wields them in the worst possible way.” (39:11, Alexandra)

“I think we need to start looking at situations as tragedies as opposed to an opportunity to nail someone.” (47:12, Alexandra)

Contact Hunter Parnell:

https://www.aclu.org/other/racist-arrests-tulia-texas

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66: Is Incrementalism Enough to Fix the Criminal Legal System w/Jeff Blackburn

Public Defenseless

11/16/22 • 77 min

Can people incarcerated afford to wait for small, gradual change? What happens to the people incarcerated if the system breaks? What is the right balance between the needs of the current case vs the needs of the future case? How do Public Defenders counter the decades long strategy of the Conservative legal movement with their own strategy?

All these questions, and more, are pondered by Hunter and his guest today, Jeff Blackburn. During his career, Jeff worked as a criminal defense attorney, impact litigation lawyer and helped to found and operate the Texas Innocence Project. Through it all, Jeff’s aimed to foster and execute a strategic vision for indigent defense and civil liberties that counter’s the work of prosecutors and police. In his eyes, public defenders and other justice minded individuals are in the conflict business and the must learn to value the future battles as much as the current ones. To fail to do so will leave them fighting a battle against an enemy that already made the fight unwinnable, but what is the right balance?

Hopefully, this discussion and the myriad of questions that arise from it will spark your own thinking about how to move towards more strategic levels of thinking.

Guest:

Jeff Blackburn, Criminal defense and Impact attorney, Co-Founder, Texas Innocence Project

Key Takeaways:

Jeff’s career [8:30]
What is impact litigation [16:24]
Victory in the Tulia Case and the Lesson’s learned from it [17:20]
The Texas Innocence Project [21:54]
Impacts of the Tim Cole Case [26:00]
Learning strategy from the history NAACP Legal Fund [28:30]
Countering the Conservative Legal Movement [33:38]
Is Incrementalism Enough [38:30]
How to balance current case vs future case [46:00]
The structural/historical obstacles in many state [53:20]
What happens if the system breaks [57:40]
Is education the way to solve this [1:01:00]
The case for hope [1:10:00]

Resources:

Tulia Case:

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2002-04-19/85638/

https://www.myplainview.com/news/article/5-million-settlement-reached-in-Tulia-lawsuit-8757623.php

https://www.salon.com/2003/04/09/tulia_2/

Tim Cole’s Case

https://innocenceproject.org/cases/timothy-cole/

Jeff Calling out Dallas’ Wrongful Conviction Issues

https://innocenceproject.org/deconstructing-dallas-the-county-with-more-dna-exonerations-than-any-other/

Why Jeff Left the Innocence Project

https://www.sacurrent.com/news/texas-innocence-project-founder-quits-accuses-colleagues-of-selling-out-2440927

More of Jeff’s Work

austinchronicle.com/news/2008-04-04/608555/

Contact Hunter Parnell:

USA Today Coverage of those left behind after Ian

1 Listener

65: What Happened to the Prisoners Stuck in Jail During Hurricane Ian? w/Kathy Smith

Public Defenseless

11/14/22 • 46 min

For Public Defenders who serve in coastal areas, the story on toady’s show will be all too familiar. As Hurricane Ian barrelled toward the Florida coast, a state of emergency was declared and evacuation plans started to come together, but as is almost always the case, no one thought of those incarcerated.

Today, Hunter spoke with Kathy Smith, Chief Public Defender in the 20th Judicial District of Florida, to discuss the impacts of the storm on those left in jail. Dating as far back as memory allows, state’s failed their obligations to protect the lives of people both in and out of jail when natural disasters strike, and Hurricane Ian was no exception. For days, people, many of whom were in jail simply because they could not afford to pay bail, lived with raw sewage and without clean drinking water.

Luckily, no one died from the state’s neglect, but this episode serves as a powerful warning and reminder for those with a duty to protect people’s lives: when a natural disaster strikes, remember the people who cannot evacuate and think of a way to keep them alive.

Guest:

Kathy Smith, Chief Public Defender, 20th Judicial District, Florida

Key Takeaways:

How Kathy got into this work [6:50]
Historical response to natural disasters in the 20th District [10:50]
The response to Hurricane Ian in the 20th District [12:34]
Who was in the Ft Meyer’s jail and what conditions did they face [18:27]
Why pre-trial release is so important [24:42]
Impacts and the way forward after Ian [26:41]
Does Florida care about the Constitution or just the part it likes? [31:00]
Changes for the Future [34:43]
People arrested during the storm [38:00]
Advice to other Public Defenders [41:20]

Resources:

More Coverage on Ian

Miami New Times Coverage

People left in prison during:

Hurricane Ike, Maria, Matthew, Irene etc.

Contact Hunter Parnell:

Sixth Amendment Center Report Indiana

1 Listener

08: Why Did Indiana's Public Defense System Fail? w/Larry Landis

Public Defenseless

02/09/22 • 63 min

When it comes to public defense, Larry Landis is a legend.

As the former Head of the Indiana Public Defender Council, Larry has been in public defense since the 1970s and has worked with some of the biggest names in the industry.

As the architect of the current Indiana indigent defense system, he explains how the reimbursement model Indiana runs on came to be and how it affects people trapped in the legal system.

Because Larry has been in this industry for so long, you’ll get a unique behind-the-scenes view of the Indiana indigent defense system that you won’t get anywhere else!

Key Topics and Takeaways:

Larry’s background + an overview of his impressive career
The evolution of public defense infrastructure in Indiana
Larry’s past legislative work to improve Indiana public defense
When the speediness of a trial gets in the way of a fair one
Why misdemeanors in Indiana are not reimbursed
The vilification of public defenders
Winning back communities that have lost faith in public defenders
How we can encourage law students to see public defense as a legitimate career opportunity

Guest:

Larry Landis, Former Head of the Indiana Public Defender Council

Resources:

2017 Task Force on Indiana Indigent Defense

2020 American Bar Association Workload Study

Memorable Quotes:

“There’s too many cases trying to fit through a small funnel.” (6:40, Larry)

“We have tried numerous times to increase reimbursement for misdemeanors, but I’ve never been successful.” (12:25, Larry)

“Lawyers are no different than most people, they can be desensitized and numbed by the fact that they’re not providing effective representation. My position is they need to be much stronger at advocating and challenging the system and refusing to be enablers” (21:01, Larry)

“The adversarial system is designed for once that accusation is lodged, game on in terms of that, that train is rolling down the tracks. And if you don’t have someone to slow it down, you’re going to prison.” (38:52, Larry)

“There’s gotta be consequences right now, there’s virtually none. So the lawyers can get away with curing corners, counties can underfund it, and there’s no consequence.” (49:52, Larry)

“We have this idea that people who require indigent defense are the worst of the worst of society. When in reality, the vast majority of them are low-level offenders who given enough opportunity, given the resources and not just discarded from society can again be productive members.” (57:04, Hunter)

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