Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time
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Clay
Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time
06/22/22 • 49 min
In seventeenth-century Europe, some of the wealthiest women in the world were doing something strange with the ceramic jars in their curiosity cabinets. They were eating them. But these clay pieces from Mexico—called búcaros—weren't just some bizarre snack. They were seen as a piece of the “New World,” one you could touch, smell, and taste. They were so well known that they even made it into the foreground of masterpiece paintings. But what is the real story behind these jars? Who is preserving this centuries-old ceramic tradition, and what does it mean to be one of the few artists who still works with this specific, sensuous clay?
Guests:
Fernando Jimón Melchor, master ceramics artisan from Tonalà, Mexico
Federico Carò, research scientist, Scientific Research, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Margaret Connors McQuade, Deputy Director & Curator of Decorative Arts, The Hispanic Society Museum & Library
Ronda Kasl, curator of Latin American Art, The American Wing, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Jorge Cañizares-Esguerra, professor and historian of science and medicine at the University of Texas
Featured object:
Covered jar (Búcaros), ca. 1675–1700. Mexico, Tonalà. Earthenware, burnished, with white paint and silver leaf, 27 3/4 in. (70.5 cm). The Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York, Sansbury-Mills Fund, 2015 (2015.45.2a, b)
For a transcript of this episode and more information, visit metmuseum.org/immaterial
#MetImmaterial
Immaterial is produced by The Metropolitan Museum of Art and Magnificent Noise and hosted by Camile Dungy. This episode was produced by Eleanor Kagan and Ariana Martinez.
Translation, photos and field production by Fernando Hernandez Becerra of Esto no es radio.
Special thanks to Marie Clapot, Monika Bincsik, Sarah Cowan, Lam Thuy Vo, and ArtShack Brooklyn.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
2 Listeners
Paper
Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time
05/25/22 • 38 min
Valentines, comic books, cigarette cards and more—all of these objects can be meaningful, but what does it mean to house them in a museum? Paper holds our memories, our stories, our fears, and our desires. How do conservators race against time to make them last? Enter the world of handheld ephemera, where keeping these objects in our hands or in our pockets keeps them close to our hearts.
Guests:
Taz Ahmed, author, activist, and visual artist
Rachel Mustalish, conservator, Paper Conservation, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Nancy Rosin, valentine researcher and scholar and volunteer cataloger in the Department of Drawings and Prints, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Allison Rudnick, associate curator, Drawings and Prints, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Objects featured in this episode:
Omene cigarette cards (various)
Esther Howland valentines (various)
For an exclusive interview with Omene’s granddaughter, a transcript of this episode and more, visit metmuseum.org/immaterial
#MetImmaterial
Immaterial is produced by The Metropolitan Museum of Art and Magnificent Noise and hosted by Camille Dungy. This episode was produced by Adwoa Gyimah-Brempong and Eleanor Kagan.
Special thanks to Mindell Dubansky and Nadine Orenstein.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
2 Listeners
Concrete
Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time
06/08/22 • 37 min
Concrete is full of contradictions. First it’s dust, then liquid, then hard as stone. It’s both rough and smooth, it’s modern and ancient, it can preserve history or play a hand in destroying it. Unsurprisingly, concrete is all about the gray area. Hear about this material from its supporters and detractors alike: why it’s so controversial, why it’s so often used in memorials, and how Colombian artist Doris Salcedo uses it to address grief and mourning.
Guests:
Nadine M. Orenstein, Drue Heinz Curator in Charge, Drawings and Prints, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Abraham Thomas, Daniel Brodsky Curator of Modern Architecture, Design, and Decorative Arts, Modern and Contemporary Art, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Adrian Forty, professor of architectural history, University College London, and author of Concrete and Culture (2012)
Marco Leona, David H. Koch Scientist in Charge, Scientific Research, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Iria Candela, Estrellita B. Brodsky Curator of Latin American Art, Modern and Contemporary Art, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Featured object:
Doris Salcedo (Colombian, b. 1958), Untitled, 1997–99. Wood, concrete, and steel, 32 x 15 1/4 x 16 1/2 in. (81.3 x 38.7 x 41.9 cm). The Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York, Purchase, Lila Acheson Wallace Gift and Latin American Art Initiative Gift, 2020 (2020.25)
For a transcript of this episode and more information, visit metmuseum.org/immaterial
#MetImmaterial
Immaterial is produced by The Metropolitan Museum of Art and Magnificent Noise and hosted by Camile Dungy. This episode was produced by Eleanor Kagan.
Special thanks to Doris Salcedo, Laura Ubate, the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art, the Museum of Contemporary Art in Chicago, Harvard Art Museums, and the Nasher Sculpture Center.
Audio © President and Fellows of Harvard College. Recorded by Danny Hoshino on November 2, 2016, Harvard Art Museums
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
1 Listener
Metals, Part One
Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time
08/17/22 • 56 min
Philosophers and scientists have tried for millennia to crack the code of alchemy: the art of turning lead into gold. But alchemy goes much deeper than that—it gives us a framework for turning metal into story. In the first of a two-part episode on the metals of alchemy, we explore iron, bronze, lead, and copper. Our stories go deep into the basement of The Met, and back in time to a waterlogged ancient tomb. You’ll hear about books that dazzle, puppets that weep, and the long lost sound of a 2000-year-old bell.
Guests:
Edward Hunter, armorer and conservator, Arms and Armor, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Marco Leona, David H. Koch Scientist in Charge, Scientific Research, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Ali Olomi, professor of Middle East, Islamic, and Global Southern history, Penn State Abington
Kannia Rifatulzia, translator, In-depth Creative
Defri Simatupang, archaeologist, North Sumatera Archaeology Center, Indonesia
Zhixin Jason Sun, Brooke Russell Astor Curator of Chinese Art, Asian Art, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Yana Van Dyke, conservator, Paper Conservation, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Objects featured in this episode:
European armor (various)
Zhong bells (various)
Puppet Head (Si Gale-gale), late 19th–early 20th century. Indonesia, Sumatra. Toba Batak people. Wood, copper alloy, lead alloy, water buffalo horn, paint, H. (without pull rope) 13 1/4 in. x W. 6 in. x D. 6 1/2 in. (33.7 x 15.2 x 16.5 cm). The Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York, Gift of Fred and Rita Richman, 1987 (1987.453.6)
Shahnama (Book of Kings) of Shah Tahmasp, ca. 1525–30. Opaque watercolor, ink, silver, and gold on paper. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York, Gift of Arthur A. Houghton Jr., 1970 (1970.301.1–78)
For a transcript of this episode and more information, visit metmuseum.org/immaterial
#MetImmaterial
Immaterial is produced by The Metropolitan Museum of Art and Magnificent Noise and hosted by Camile Dungy. This episode was produced by Adwoa Gyimah-Brempong.
Field production by Tanita Rahmani.
Special thanks to Sheila Blair, Lauren Johnson, and G. Willow Wilson.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
1 Listener
Introducing: Immaterial
Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time
05/08/22 • 3 min
Introducing Immaterial, a brand new podcast from The Met. Hosted by poet Camille T. Dungy, Immaterial examines the materials of art and what they can reveal about history, humanity, and the world at large. Launching May 25th; new episodes publish every other Wednesday.
For a transcript and more information, please visit www.metmuseum.org/immaterial
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
1 Listener
Metals, Part Two
Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time
08/31/22 • 49 min
In the second part of our alchemical journey, we meet what ancient philosophers called the “noble” metals: mercury, silver, and gold. How did a nineteenth-century set designer harness one of the most captivating—and toxic—materials in the world and wind up as one of the fathers of photography? When does a coin go from a piece of stamped metal to an act of faith? And how did gold in Ghana go from dust in the water to a touchstone of language, story, and the strength of an empire?
Guests:
Yaëlle Biro, former associate curator for the Arts of Africa, African Art in The Michael C. Rockefeller Wing, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Daniel Carrillo, studio photographer
Benjamin Harnett, independent scholar of ancient technology and digital engineer, The New York Times
Marco Leona, David H. Koch Scientist in Charge, Scientific Research, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Irene Soto Marín, economic historian and assistant professor of ancient history, Harvard University
Yaw Nyarko, professor of Economics, New York University
Stephen Pinson, curator, Photographs, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Objects featured in this episode:
Works of Louis-Jacques-Mandé Daguerre (various)
Roman coins (various)
Staff of Office: Figures, spider web and spider motif (ȯkyeame), 19th–early 20th century. Ghana. Akan peoples, Asante group. Wood, gold foil, nails, H. 61 5/8 x W. 5 3/4 x D. 2 1/4 in. (156.5 x 14.6 x 5.7 cm). The Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York, Gift of the Richard J. Faletti Family, 1986 (1986.475a-c)
For a transcript of this episode and more information, visit metmuseum.org/immaterial
#MetImmaterial
Immaterial is produced by The Metropolitan Museum of Art and Magnificent Noise and hosted by Camile Dungy. This episode was produced by Adwoa Gyimah-Brempong.
Special thanks to Alan Shapiro, Bobby Walsh, Lauren Johnson, and Kwabena and Rose Gyimah-Brempong.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
1 Listener
Space, Part 1: Giving Form to a Feeling
Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time
06/18/24 • 32 min
How does an artist give presence to absence?
Bronze, wood, paint, and stone—classic materials for art making. But what if you're trying and struggling to convey a vast expanse, a terrible loss or a haunting presence? In this episode we'll look at two artists who turned to the material of space to express what nothing else could.
Guests:
Rachel Whiteread, sculptor
Brinda Kumar, Associate Curator, Modern and Contemporary Art, The Met
Shania Hall, photographer
Featured artworks:
Rachel Whiteread, Untitled (Three Tables), 1995/1996: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/816239
Shania Hall, Where the Vast Sky Meets the Flat Earth (unofficial title), ca. 2015: https://www.metmuseum.org/articles/framing-plains-indians
For a transcript of the episode and more information, visit metmuseum.org/immaterialspaceart
#MetImmaterial
Immaterial is produced by The Metropolitan Museum of Art and Magnificent Noise and hosted by Camille Dungy.
Production staff includes Salman Ahad Khan, Ann Collins, Samantha Henig, Eric Nuzum, Emma Vecchione, Sarah Wambold, and Jamie York. Additional staff includes Julia Bordelon, Skyla Choi, Maria Kozanecka, and Rachel Smith.
Sound design by Ariana Martinez and Kristin Muller.
Original music by Austin Fisher.
Fact-checking by Mary Mathis and Claire Hyman.
Immaterial is made possible by Dasha Zhukova Niarchos. Additional support is provided by the Zodiac Fund.
Special thanks to Exhibition Design Manager Dan Kershaw, Associate Curator Patricia Norby, and Curator Sylvia Yount
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
1 Listener
Introducing: Immaterial Season 2
Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time
05/21/24 • 2 min
What is hiding in the material choices of artists and makers?
Immaterial, The Metropolitan Museum of Art’s marquee podcast, is back with eight more episodes that reveal the emotional origins and transformative power of art through the lens of materials.
This season we learn from Mexican artisans keeping centuries-old traditions alive; we go to ancient Mesopotamia to understand time travel; and we find a mythical tree in Belize that’s been making music for decades.
From traditional materials like stone and wood, to more abstract ones like space and time, the podcast explores how these materials shape the inner lives of artworks and the human experiences they reflect.
Season 2 of Immaterial drops June 4.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Stone: Making and Breaking Legacies
Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time
06/04/24 • 42 min
What happens when the unbreakable breaks?
Throughout art museums around the world, you’ll find ancient stone statues of rulers and marble monuments immortalizing noblemen. These objects were made to survive decay and destruction, to remain intact and whole. But from the moment that stone is extracted from the earth, it is bound to become a more fragmented version of itself–chiseled, chipped, and sometimes shattered over time.
In this episode, we examine the many ways that stone breaks. How can a statue’s cracks and cavities tell a more complex story of our humanity?
Guests:
Jack Soultanian, Conservator, Objects Conservation, The Met
Carolyn Riccardelli, Conservator, Objects Conservation, The Met
Robert Macfarlane, nature writer and mountaineer
Erhan Tamur, former Andrew W. Mellon Postdoctoral Curatorial Fellow, The Met
Sarah Graff, Curator, Ancient Near Eastern Art, The Met
Featured artworks:
Tullio Lombardo, Adam, ca. 1490–95: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/197822
Statues of Gudea, Neo-Sumerian, ca. 2120–2090 BCE: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/329072
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/324061
https://collections.louvre.fr/en/ark:/53355/cl010119539
For a transcript of the episode and more information, visit metmuseum.org/immaterialstone
#MetImmaterial
Immaterial is produced by The Metropolitan Museum of Art and Magnificent Noise and hosted by Camille Dungy.
Production staff includes Salman Ahad Khan, Ann Collins, Samantha Henig, Eric Nuzum, Emma Vecchione, Sarah Wambold, and Jamie York. Additional staff includes Julia Bordelon, Skyla Choi, Maria Kozanecka, and Rachel Smith.
Sound design by Ariana Martinez and Kristin Muller.
Original music by Austin Fisher.
Fact-checking by Mary Mathis and Claire Hyman.
Immaterial is made possible by Dasha Zhukova Niarchos. Additional support is provided by the Zodiac Fund.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Blankets and Quilts: Threads of Identity
Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time
07/16/24 • 40 min
What happens when our most intimate possessions end up in art museums?
Blankets comfort and keep us warm. They accompany us through our lives. They are keepers of some of our most intimate stories. We look at a group of artists who harness this power of blankets and quilts as totems for memory, community and cultural survival.
Guests:
Loretta Pettway Bennett, Gee's Bend quilt maker
Marie Watt, artist
Ally Barlow, associate conservator, Department of Textile Conservation, The Met
Louisiana P. Bendolph, Gee's Bend quilt maker
Louise Williams, board president, Freedom Quilting Bee Legacy
Featured artworks:
Qunnie Pettway, Housetop, ca. 1975: https://www.soulsgrowndeep.org/artist/qunnie-pettway/work/housetop
Marie Watt, Untitled (Dream Catcher), 2014: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/849042
Louisiana P. Bendolph, Housetop quilt, 2003: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/654095
Annie E. Pettway, “Flying Geese” Variation, ca. 1935: https://www.soulsgrowndeep.org/artist/annie-e-pettway/work/flying-geese-variation
Willie "Ma Willie" Abrams, Roman Stripes quilt, ca. 1975: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/654081
For a transcript of the episode and more information, visit metmuseum.org/immaterialblankets
#MetImmaterial
Immaterial is produced by The Metropolitan Museum of Art and Magnificent Noise and hosted by Camille Dungy.
Our production staff includes Salman Ahad Khan, Ann Collins, Samantha Henig, Eric Nuzum, Emma Vecchione, Sarah Wambold, and Jamie York. Additional staff includes Laura Barth, Julia Bordelon, Skyla Choi, Maria Kozanecka, and Rachel Smith.
Sound design by Ariana Martinez and Kristin Muller.
Original music by Austin Fisher.
Fact-checking by Mary Mathis and Claire Hyman.
Sensitivity listening by Adwoa Gyimyah-Brempong.
Immaterial is made possible by Dasha Zhukova Niarchos. Additional support is provided by the Zodiac Fund.
Special thanks to Eva Labson, Scott Browning, Curator Amelia Peck, and Avery Trufelman.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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FAQ
How many episodes does Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time have?
Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time currently has 19 episodes available.
What topics does Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time cover?
The podcast is about Visual Arts, Podcasts and Arts.
What is the most popular episode on Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time?
The episode title 'Paper' is the most popular.
What is the average episode length on Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time?
The average episode length on Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time is 37 minutes.
How often are episodes of Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time released?
Episodes of Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time are typically released every 14 days.
When was the first episode of Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time?
The first episode of Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time was released on May 8, 2022.
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