Humans of Martech - 86: Deanna Ballew: Embracing open source composable martech, AI literacy and qualitative insights

86: Deanna Ballew: Embracing open source composable martech, AI literacy and qualitative insights

08/29/23 • 49 min

A Two Decade Journey Through the Whirlwind of Tech

When asked about her impressive tenure at Acquia and Widen, spanning nearly 20 years, Deanna offered a wealth of insight. Unlike many professionals in the tech industry who frequently switch roles, Deanna has remained at Widen, continuing with the organization even after its acquisition by Acquia. The secret to her long-term commitment, she explained, is the opportunity for growth and the freedom to evolve without stagnation.

In search of what she referred to as the 'Goldilocks' of companies, she found the perfect balance at Widen. The organization was large enough to offer learning opportunities and yet small enough to let her make an impact. This was back in 2004, a time when print was still dominant, smartphones and social media were yet to revolutionize the world, and 'martech' hadn't entered the business vocabulary. Deanna was part of a small software team tasked with the transformation of Widen, a pre-press company established in 1948, into a leading player in the software and martech industry.

Deanna has been instrumental in the company's journey to becoming a significant provider of SaaS solutions and a force in martech. The excitement of riding the waves of innovation in marketing technology, she admitted, has been a captivating part of her career. Over the past decade, Deanna's focus has shifted to the human element of martech—exploring how people use these technologies, how behaviors intersect with tech growth, and what software vendors can do to support everyday tasks. This focus on the people-centric side of the rapidly advancing martech world has fuelled her passion in recent years.

Takeaway: Deanna’s enduring presence at Acquia and Widen is a testament to her adaptability and eagerness for growth. She has navigated through tech revolutions, transforming Widen from a pre-press company into a significant player in the martech world, all the while maintaining a people-centric focus. Her story underlines the significance of seizing opportunities and staying agile in the ever-transforming tech landscape.

Unraveling Martech Acronyms: DAM and DXP

When queried about the confusing array of acronyms in the martech space, Deanna readily acknowledged the "alphabet soup". She then proceeded to shed light on two key terms - DAM (Digital Asset Management) and DXP (Digital Experience Platform).

Deanna's enthusiasm for DAM was infectious as she described it as a system that allows organizations to create, manage, and distribute thousands, if not millions, of digital assets for their brands, products, and services. DAM is essential to industries ranging from non-profits and higher education to financial services and hospitality. In essence, any sector that needs to manage a slew of digital files benefits from DAM. The aim is to ensure consistency and reinforce brand management.

Next, Deanna turned her attention to the concept of DXP, the digital experience platform. At its heart, a DXP is about combining data and content to craft meaningful user experiences. Key tools like Drupal or WordPress, known as content management systems, come into play here. The process involves weaving together images and data to tailor personalized customer journeys. Machine learning is used to further enhance and scale these experiences across various touchpoints.

The discussion highlighted the need for organizations to embrace technologies like DAM and DXP to meet the evolving expectations of their audiences, whether it's web-based interactions or exploring potential frontiers like VR, AR, and metaverses.

Takeaway: Acronyms like DAM and DXP are more than just letters—they signify critical aspects of modern martech. DAM helps organizations manage an immense amount of digital content, ensuring brand consistency, while DXP amalgamates data and content to create personalized customer experiences. In the realm of martech, understanding and leveraging such tools is the key to delivering effective digital experiences.

Dissecting the Packaged vs Composable Debate in Martech

When Deanna was asked about the debate between packaged and composable solutions in the martech space, she provided an insightful response. Her viewpoint emphasizes the importance of tailoring solutions to an organization's internal team dynamics and willingness to change.

In some cases, Deanna explained, packaged solutions like Acquia's suite of offerings - which includes a content management system (CMS), a hosting platform, a customer data platform (CDP), and a marketing automation platform - might be the best fit. These ready-to-go solutions can provide faster time to value and seamless integration. Yet, Deanna was quick to recognize that not all organizations are poised to change their processes to fit into a pre-bundled solution.

For or...

A Two Decade Journey Through the Whirlwind of Tech

Unraveling Martech Acronyms: DAM and DXP

Dissecting the Packaged vs Composable Debate in Martech

For or...

Previous Episode

85: Arun Thulasidharan: Warehouse-native martech and an alternative pricing model

Summary: Arun clarifies 'warehouse-native' and 'connected' concepts, positioning Castled.io as a flexible solution that caters to specific customer needs. He addresses challenges in traditional martech, such as the disparity between customer base size and value derived, and presents Castled.io's unique solutions like an alternative pricing model and immediate data access. Arun navigates the issues of a warehouse-native approach, providing strategies for handling real-time data and minimizing compute charges. He cautions against seeing warehouse-native adoption as merely an escape from reverse ETL, emphasizing its potential to resolve existing martech problems and enhance functionalities. Arun encourages a positive attitude towards new, complex technologies, recognizing their transformative potential.

About Arun

Arun is a data engineer by trade with over a decade of experience building and scaling systems in the startup ecosystem
He started his career in software engineering roles at Applied Materials, an enterprise semiconductor manufacturer and later MiQ, a programmatic advertising media partner
Arun then joined Flipkart, known today as India’s largest e-commerce marketplace with a whopping 150 million customers
He then moved to the startup world joining Hevo Data as one of the first tech hires, a No-code ETL Data Pipeline platform that enables companies to consolidate data from multiple software
In 2021, Arun moved to San Francisco to co-found his first startup, Castled Data - A warehouse-native customer engagement platform that sits directly on top of cloud data warehouses
Along with his team of founders Arun was selected by YC in the Winter 22 batch

From Open Source Reverse ETL Tool to Warehouse Native CEP

When asked about the transformational journey of Castled.io, Arun shed light on the genesis of the company's vision. It was a time when businesses wanted to move their data from warehouses to various tools, yet the market lacked the means to do this efficiently. Recognizing this gap, Arun embarked on the mission to develop an open source, reverse ETL solution. His concept was founded on the idea that no one-size-fits-all tool could cater to the wide range of companies' diverse requirements.

This venture brought Castled.io a fair amount of traction, with many companies employing their open source solution in-house, and a growing clientele availing of their cloud-based offering. However, around this time, a critical analysis of the martech landscape provoked a pivot. Arun realized the long-term sustainability of reverse ETL solutions was questionable, especially with the burgeoning concept of warehouse-native apps. Other companies were beginning to develop their own reverse ETL tools.

Arun observed that these ETL solutions were not truly designed for data teams but rather marketing growth teams, signaling a limitation in their scope. The need to constantly shift data to different platforms like Intercom was dwindling, given alternative and more efficient methods emerging in the martech ecosystem. In fact, he believed that the popularity of these reverse ETL solutions might begin to wane within a year.

The most crucial feedback that inspired the transformation of Castled.io came directly from its target audience – the marketers. They indicated that a reverse ETL solution did not fully resolve their challenges, especially in scenarios where handling large amounts of data became a bottleneck for their existing tools. It became clear that simply copying data from warehouses to another tool wasn't an effective solution.

Prompted by these revelations and the rising acceptance of the warehouse-native concept, Arun and his team decided to pivot. They transitioned from being an open-source reverse ETL tool provider to building Castled.io as a solution directly layered on top of data warehouses. This move allowed them to bypass data migration issues and directly cater to the marketers' needs.

Takeaway: The journey of Castled.io highlights the importance of remaining adaptable and receptive to market changes and customer feedback. This awareness allowed the company to evolve from being an open-source reverse ETL tool to a robust, warehouse-native solution, directly addressing marketers' challenges. The company's pivot is a testament to strategic foresight and innovation in the martech space.

The Similarities of Open vs Closed and Composable vs Packaged CDPs

In the fiery debate around composed versus packaged CDPs, Arun weighed in with his unique viewpoint. He likened the contrast between these two approaches to the difference between open source and closed source systems.

From Arun's perspective, the appeal of composable CDPs lies in the flexibility they offer. This format enables innovation on top of the data warehou...

Next Episode

87: Michael Katz: The Evolution of packaged CDPs, democratizing ML and the myths of composable and zero data copy

What’s folks, today I’m pumped to be joined by Michael Katz, CEO and co-founder at mParticle, the leading independent customer data platform.

Summary: In the contentious debate over Packaged and Composable CDPs, Michael delivers a clear-eyed perspective that cuts through the hype. Rejecting the idea that Pacakged CDPs are becoming obsolete, he emphasizes the continued importance of data quality, integrity, and privacy, and he warns against becoming entangled in marketing illusions. He also highlights the need for adaptability, dismissing some of the more pervasive myths in the martech landscape, such as the magic of zero copy data. With strategic acquisitions, mParticle is focusing on intelligence and automation, aiming to be more than just “simple pipes” in data management. Michael’s insights provide a grounded roadmap, focusing on genuine value creation and thoughtful navigation of the complex industry that is Customer Data Platforms.

About Michael

Michael got his start as an analyst at Accenture and later focused on customer acquisition and marketing strategy for a mobile content company
He entered the entrepreneurial world founding interclick in 2005, a data-valuation platform for advertisers
He ran the company as President and took the company public in 2009 and sold to Yahoo in 2011 for $270M
He’s been on the Board of Directors for several companies including Adaptly and BrightLine
He’s a volunteer at Southampton Animal Shelter
He’s also a Mentor at Techstars
After a year as VP of Optimization and Analytics at Yahoo after his company’s acquisition, Michael took on his second venture, co-founding mParticle in 2013
mParticle is a global, remote-first company that provides a real-time AI customer data platform. They help get the highest quality customer data to any system that marketers or product managers use – ultimately improving customer experiences. They work with big players and small, fueling the customer success of brands like Paypal, Seatgeek, Venmo, Headspace, Lyft, McDonalds, and Airbnb.

Unpacking the 8 Components of Customer Data Platforms

When asked about Arpit Choudhury’s enumeration of the eight essential components of Customer Data Platforms (CDPs), Michael’s response was swift and assertive. With an appreciative shoutout to Arpit for articulating the complex aspects of CDPs, he aligned himself with the eight facets laid out in the question.

These eight components, according to Michael, indeed compose an end-to-end solution for the first generation of CDPs. They include:

CDI, customer data infra, collect 1st party event data from customers from website and apps
ETL, data ingestion, extract data from other tools and load it into DWH
Data Storage/warehousing, store a copy of data collected
Identity resolution, a solution for tying together a customer’s various interactions with you across multiple platforms and devices
Audience segmentation, drag and drop UI
Reverse ETL, extract/activate from DWH to other tools
Data quality, validity, accuracy, consistency, freshness, completeness...
Data governance and privacy compliance, user consent, HIPAA compliance

Emphasizing the integrated nature of these components, Michael asserts that the value of the whole system is greater than the sum of the individual parts. He proudly reflects on mParticle’s reputation as a complete CDP and emphasizes that many existing CDPs lack strong stories around data quality and governance.

The conversation with Michael reveals his confidence in the synergy that arises when these parts function together. He cautions against skipping any of these steps, underscoring that a weak foundation will undermine the entire system. Speed in data processing should not compromise quality and privacy protection, and mParticle’s holistic approach ensures this balance is maintained.

Takeaway: Michael’s insights into the eight essential components of CDPs not only align with industry experts but also highlight the importance of a unified approach. By valuing integration, quality, and consumer privacy, mParticle positions itself as a leading player in the CDP landscape. The wisdom shared by Michael emphasizes that genuine value is derived not merely from the individual elements but from the careful orchestration of all parts into a coherent and resilient system.

Debunking the Myths Around Reverse ETL and Composable CDPs

Reverse ETL and composable CDP proponents assert that the traditional CDP is becoming obsolete and that the future lies in Composable CDPs that leverage modern data warehouses and processes like Reverse E...