Lead Like a Human: an interview with Adam Weber

09/29/21 • 52 min

– Adam Weber

One of the I think keys to genuine empathy is through consistent one on one and how you display empathy, like, structurally inside of an organization. So, for example, a one on one is that place where as a manager, you can create safety with your team and with your direct reports and create a vulnerable relationship where you really do know what's going on inside of their world in their life

INTRO

Sometimes, when you hear from leaders, you are inundated with their success stories: their key tips to making your life or company just as successful as theirs has been. And the whole thing can kind of seem a little unattainable and aspirational.

Which is one of the things that I love about today’s interview with Adam Weber, the Senior Vice President for 15Five. Adam is one of those highfliers whose work is marked by successes, whether that is leading HR professionals in HR Superstars or successfully growing and then selling Emplify as a co-founder.

But my conversation with Adam isn’t just a series of success stories. He is going to tell you about moments where he was NOT his best self, where as a young founder under tons of stress, he created distance instead of connection...and what he learned from it. Along with a lot of other great content.

Adam is a structure guy, so be ready for some really actionable suggestions. Adam is also the author of “Lead Like a Human”. Great title! He has a wife, two sons, and a dog named Poppy and he loves spending time in nature, camping, and bird-watching. I hope you enjoy today’s conversation as much as I did.

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

Adam, I'm so glad to have you as a guest today. Welcome.

- Adam Weber

It's good to be here. Liesel. Thank you so much.

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

Yes. So a question that I oftentimes get in my work is defining what empathy looks like in the workplace. And I know that you're someone who has worked a lot professionally and written and thought about connection in the workplace. How would you define empathy at work? What does it look like?

- Adam Weber

I think it work. Empathy at work, I think, is seeing your employees as whole people as their whole sales and just in recognizing that they have things that are moving in their life that are outside of work, they have aspects of things that work that are impacting them that maybe you're unaware of. And so just taking that holistic perspective of each person and the unique experience that they're having and translating that and how you relate to them.

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

Thank you for that. I have found as I work with different companies as I meet with individuals that oftentimes when people like get it, when they feel really resonant with the importance of empathy and connection in the workplace, it comes out of a place of personal experience. They've had some touch points with either needing empathy and care or being in the position of giving it in a way that was really impactful. I'd love for you to share a story of when you've either really needed care in the workplace or when it's been really important for you to give it.

- Adam Weber

Yeah. I think I have two stories that come to mind. The first is maybe how early in my career I was able to practice empathy in a way that helped me see the value in it. I started in my career when I was 22 to 25. I was the pastor of a Church, and it's a story for a different day, but basically became the head pastor when I was 25, never given a sermon in my life. Wow. And was trying to support and was really the only staff person for two to 300 people and was trying to support them when in reality, like, I was just still really young myself.

- Adam Weber

And I think through that experience, a lot of people opened up to me about their lives. And you got to be a part of some of those high moments, like weddings, but also you're very much in the midst of really, really difficult situations. And so during that season, I think I learned a lot about just the value of sitting with people through hard things. It was during that time that one of my very best friends had ALS and he passed away and over an 18 month period.

- Adam Weber

But, you know, every Tuesday and Thursday, we sat together that entire time and have lunch together. And I think just being with him and watching him go through that experience was something that really built empathy with me. So that's may be on just like, the personal side of, like, really early. I got a little bit thrown into the fire of empathy and being just being with others.

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

Yeah. And I know that you have a second story, but I love it. Could I just interrupt you for a second? Because I'm struck with the dynamics of that story, something that I find myself facilitating a lot around is compassion, fatigue and talking. Or even Adam Grant use the term languishing recently. That sense of like, I don't know if...

– Adam Weber

INTRO

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

Adam, I'm so glad to have you as a guest today. Welcome.

- Adam Weber

It's good to be here. Liesel. Thank you so much.

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

- Adam Weber

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

- Adam Weber

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

Previous Episode

To See It, Be It: an interview with Max Yoder

- Max Yoder

That divine middle is emotional liberation, where I can be compassionate and show compassion to an individual. But I do not need to carry whatever it is that they are feeling, right, not my responsibility to. And the thing about the thing that I think this is so important for me in my life is I think this was my biggest blocker, my biggest blocker to grow like something that I may have gone through my whole life and never addressed if it were not for something like Lessonly.

INTRO

When companies and individuals think about skilling-up in empathy and compassion, there are common questions that arise. How can I take on the feelings of others without being crushed by them? What do good boundaries look like? How am I ever going to keep my people accountable to their actual work if I start being all touchy-feely with the. My guest today touches on all of these questions and more. There are many reasons why you should take the time to listen to Max Yoder: he is erudite, well-read (see all of the books and authors he noted in the show notes), and he really cares about people. He is also the co-founder of the continually growing learning platform, Lessonly. Just last week, Lessonly made headlines in the tech world when they were acquired by Seismic. And the last few years has been a series of success stories for the company. Max is much more than an executive and a thinker, he is also a crafter of Lego art. - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

Is there anything that you found yourself giving time to in the pandemic, whether that's like a new pursuit or a hobby that you have particularly enjoyed?

- Max Yoder

Yeah. I've given myself a lot more time to make art, and I tend to make art with Legos. I really appreciate this man named Joseph Albers, who was a teacher at Black Mountain College, right. During World War two, post World War II. And he created this series of things called Homage to a Square. And he really like color theory. So he would put basically squares inside one another. And he did about two0 of these over a series of 20 years, I think from his 60s to his 80s, if I recall correctly, so hugely inspired by somebody doing 2001 thing from their 60 to their 80s.

- Max Yoder

And these squares, like I said, they're color theory. So he was trying different colors, and he said when I put a blue in the middle and I surround it with a red, that blue takes on a different cue, then it visually looks different than if I surround it with a lighter blue. Like what we put around to color changes the way we perceived that color.

- Max Yoder

So during COVID, I started doing all of these squares, and they were these really great free flow activity where I could get a 16 by 16 Lego square.

- Max Yoder

And I would create my own version of Joseph Albers Homage to a Square, all these different colors, and I have them all around my attic now. And it was just one of those things that I could do without thinking I sift through the Legos, I'd find the right color. I'd build these squares. It was not taxing, but it was rewarding.

- Max Yoder

And so I think in general, what I learned to do during COVID was play and not have a goal. And in one way of doing that with art and just really, truly understand what playing is, because I think I spent a lot of my adult life and I think a lot of my adolescent life achieving instead of playing, and I think you can do both at the same time.

- Max Yoder

But I don't think I was doing both. I think mostly achieving I love that.

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

Well, especially with the relentless pace of work in general, but especially accelerated as a result of the pandemic to actually have spaces of purposeful rest, whether that's like actual physical rest of sleeping or encompassing it with the mental release of play is something that I hear again and again as I work with different individuals, even as being really life giving. Yeah. I love that

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

You also have welcomed, I think, a new little person into your home in the midst of the pandemic you find that that has having a child in the home has unleashed some different capacities in you as well?

- Max Yoder

Oh, yeah. So my daughter Marnie, she's eleven months old yesterday and eleven months.

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

Happy eleven months, Marnie.

- Max Yoder

Yeah, pretty special. Full name is Marina. When she was born, we didn't know she was gonna be a boy or a girl. She came out of my wife, and we had three names for girls, picked out three names for boys. Marina was the one that was clearly the winner. And then basically, as soon after that, we just started calling her money. So she came home and just changed our lives there's. Covid before Marnie and this COVID after Marnie and COVID after Marnie is excellent. You know, I think COVID before Marnie was really tough for a whole host of reasons, but when Marnie came, she brought this ...

Next Episode

Empathy and Connection for Start-ups: an interview with Selfless.ly

- Joshua Driver

And so it's always been confusing to me why startups don't think about their culture from day one. And because we spend so much of our wake time at work, especially on our stage and the positive vibes or feelings you get out of helping others or contributing to the betterment of your community or society or making a difference for somebody else is such an important experience I think everybody should have,

INTRO

Why aren’t we focusing on culture from Day 1? Today, we look at building connection in the world of start-ups. My guests are Josh Driver and Zach Rodenbarger from Selfless.ly. They have a lot to say about how to build connection AND their technology platform is also a platform for companies to give back, so this is like a double-impact interview.

Zach and Josh’s origin story begins just before the pandemic, launching their platform with high hopes and ideals into a pretty brutal business environment.

They are talking about how they sustained connection, built their company, and expanded the scope of influence in the midst of the dual pressures of start-up life and a bruising global pandemic. As a bit of a teaser, you will hear about the importance of taking a walk, how “hangry” can get in the way of communication, and why Nerf guns could be a good idea for your office culture.

Zach and Josh are both tech guys who are from the same Indiana town of Valparaiso. The met in 2018, committed to the concept of building a platform where companies and individuals can give not just money but time and effort to support causes that matter. The website describes the platform memorably: “Selfless.ly is a unique company that was designed by selfless people to help the world become a better place.”

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

I'd love to hear from both of you. Why do you think that that is even an important conversation to be having? And how would you define empathy work to me.

- Zach Rodenbarger

There's a few tangible examples.

That is Zach Rodenbarger, the COO of Selfless.ly

- Zach Rodenbarger

Sometimes in our interactions, Josh will come in or I'll come in and we'll have something and go back and forth. And then one of us will say, do you need to go for a walk?

- Zach Rodenbarger

And I was like.

- Zach Rodenbarger

Yes, I need to go for a walk. I need a little fresh air, you. And maybe that's just because we've been at our computers for a couple of hours or longer and need to have take a pause and have a step back. And so we've had that over the year, especially when we're working hard and looking at new timelines and goals and things. And I know I've needed a walk or two here and there.

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

We had other good practices. Sometimes it's a walk. I also find that sometimes it's a snack. I have you eaten recent links to a snack?

- Joshua Driver

Yes. We've encountered the snack situation as well. Yes. Hunger is a thing so much.

And this is Josh Driver, fellow-hangry sufferer and the Founder of Selfless.ly

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

That was like one of my biggest learning curves early on in my marriage. I I used to think it was just Luke. It's totally both of us be like, Is this really a thing, or am I just really hungry right now? And you can't know until you're no longer hungry, like, you can't even find out.

- Zach Rodenbarger

I think that's a good follow up on empathy. It's probably easier to see in other people. And then when do we take that step back and look at ourselves and actually admit that? And I think that is really helpful to business partnership or even as we continue to onboard new employees, you know, thinking through, how am I coming across to others?

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

But also, do you put yourself in their shoes and how are they feeling and so kind of both well and hearing that it actually takes a foundation of some relationship and trust to be able to take someone suggestion to do something like, go for a walk. I can imagine that a less mature or self aware moments. Somebody being like, maybe even the way it could be delivered. Just go take a walk. Somebody being like, I don't need a walk. You need a walk? No, I'm just making a really good point.

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

But to be able to be at a place where I imagine it takes some work get to that point.

- Zach Rodenbarger

Absolutely.

- Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

A lot of times I find with guests or people I get to work with those that really, like, are doing the work of promoting more human workplaces and more connection at work. There's an element that comes out of their own personal experience. So I would love to hear from both of you a time where meeting that connection and empathy at work was really important in your own personal story, so that could be giving it to someone or a time where you were like, I'm not. Okay. I need some support right now.

- Joshua...