Choiceology with Katy Milkman

You hear it a lot in contemporary education, the tech world, and the arts: that it's important to fail, to make mistakes so that you can learn from them and get better at whatever you do. But that generally accepted wisdom is incomplete.

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how failure can cloud your ability to learn and to improve.

Joseph Herscher is creator of the wildly successful YouTube channel Joseph's Machines. He builds intricate and whimsical contraptions that perform simple tasks in overly complicated ways. You may know them as Rube Goldberg machines. Joseph's machines take months to build—and often dozens and dozens of takes to capture on video in a single shot. That's because there are so many points of failure, it's rare for these elaborate contraptions to work perfectly.

All that to say, Joseph Herscher is no stranger to failure. But his work illustrates a positive approach to a negative experience. Annoying as it can be, failure is a good way to gather useful information.

You'll hear the story of one machine that nearly didn't work at all, because of an uncooperative baby. But, in the end, Joseph's Cake Server was a huge success, garnering millions of views online.

Next, Katy speaks with Lauren Eskreis-Winkler about her research with Ayelet Fishbach on how we tend to ignore some or all of the information in failure, in part because failure is uncomfortable and ego-threatening.

You can read more in the paper "Not Learning From Failure—the Greatest Failure of All."

Lauren Eskreis-Winkler is an assistant professor of management and organization at the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University.

Finally, Katy gives you advice on how to better share critical feedback, and how to limit the ego-threatening aspects of failure by adopting a growth mindset.

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Disclosures

All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Examples provided are for illustrative purposes only and not intended to be reflective of results you can expect to achieve.

Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.

The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.

Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.

Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.

(0822-2ERJ)

Don’t shoot the messenger is a metaphorical phrase for blaming the bearer of bad news. It’s easy to be angry with someone who is associated with information you don’t want to hear–say, a doctor delivering an unwelcome diagnosis, or a manager who has to fire you due to budget issues beyond her control. The phrase also points to a tendency we all have to overweight someone’s personality or disposition (that person who fired me is a jerk) and underweight the situation (sales were down this year, and they can’t afford current staffing levels).

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at this bias in a number of different contexts, and explore how it often leads us to make mistakes.

Allen Sarven, a.k.a Al Snow, is a man who has been viewed as both a villain and a hero. He spent many years as a professional wrestler in the WWE as a heel or bad guy. Wrestling fans would heap scorn on him, and cheer on his opponents. Of course, it was all an act and as you’ll hear, he is a three-dimensional human being who thinks deeply about the nature of storytelling in pro wrestling and beyond.

Recently, Sarven found himself being lauded by the media as a hero in a dramatic rescue in Florida. But he argues that anyone would have done the same thing if they were in his shoes.

Allen Sarven is currently the owner and CEO of Ohio Valley Wrestling in Louisville, Kentucky.

Next, Katy speaks with renowned social psychologist Richard Nisbett about how incomplete information can result in consequential errors. Nisbett argues that the fundamental attribution error gets us in trouble constantly. We often trust people we ought not to, or avoid people who really are perfectly nice, or we might hire people who are not all that competent, simply because we fail to recognize situational forces that may be affecting the person’s behavior.

Richard Nisbett is the Theodore M Newcomb Distinguished University Professor Emeritus of Psychology at the University of Michigan. He’s also the author of many books, including Thinking: A Memoir.

Finally, Katy talks about the ways that fundamental attribution can affect businesses and even your investment strategy.

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.

The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.

Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.

Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.

(0322-263H)

If you've ever been faced with an important decision when time was scarce, information was incomplete, or tempers were running high, you'll know that it's difficult to make a good choice. Now imagine a decision that has implications for the entire world, and the people facing that decision are 500 feet below the surface of the ocean in a nuclear-armed diesel submarine that is overheating and running out of power.

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at decisions under pressure and how our thinking process is affected by stress.

We begin in the Sargasso Sea, just off the coast of Florida, in October 1962. It's the height of the Cold War, and the Cuban Missile Crisis is bringing the U.S. and the Soviet Union closer to open conflict. John F. Kennedy has ordered a naval "quarantine" around Cuba after the discovery of Soviet missile installations there, and the Soviets have responded by sending a squadron of submarines to the area. Those submarines were ill-equipped for the warm waters around Cuba, and the squadron had little to no contact with Moscow. And they were being hunted by the American navy. It was a recipe for disaster.

Dr. Svetlana Savranskaya tells the story of two of the Russian submariners in the fleet, one who demonstrates the dangers of making decisions under extreme pressure and the other who proves why it's best when cooler heads prevail.

Dr. Savranskaya is director of Russian programs at the National Security Archive at George Washington University.

You'll also hear an American perspective on this dangerous military interaction from a man who was there. Gary Slaughter served as a communications officer on the USS Cony during the Cuban Missile Crisis and is the author of Sea Stories: A Memoir of a Naval Officer.

Next, Dr. Modupe Akinola joins Katy to discuss the mechanics of decision-making under stress. You'll hear how your stress system prepares you to act but also suppresses your ability to think clearly. Dr. Akinola offers ideas on how to prepare yourself for decisions and minimize the negative effects of stress in her paper "Thriving Under Pressure."

Modupe Akinola is an associate professor of management at Columbia Business School, director at the Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. Center for Leadership & Ethics, and host of the TED Business podcast.

Finally, Katy presents useful advice on being decision-ready and avoiding the hot-headed choice.

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Examples provided are for illustrative purposes only and not intended to be reflective of results you can expect to achieve.

Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.

The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.

Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.

Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.

(0522-2U4C)

“Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” A quintessentially American phrase from the Declaration of Independence. That “pursuit of happiness” takes many forms, but it turns out that some approaches are more likely to be successful, according to science.

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at a way to frame how you spend your time and money that may help you lead a happier life.

Joshua Fields Millburn was hungry for success. Despite a difficult childhood, he was determined to make it big. He worked long hours, took little time off, and rapidly climbed the corporate ladder in his hometown of Dayton, Ohio. By his mid-twenties, he had worked his way to a director position at a telecommunications company and was leading a very prosperous lifestyle. But his workaholism had taken a toll. By 28, his marriage had failed, his mother had died, and Joshua was at a crossroads.

You’ll hear how he was forced to take stock of what was most important—and how he shifted his priorities in a way that changed his life for the better.

Joshua Fields Millburn in one half of the simple living duo the Minimalists.

Next, Katy speaks with Cassie Mogilner Holmes about her research on time and happiness and how prioritizing quality time over money and material wealth can have lasting positive effects. She's the author of the new book Happier Hour: How to Beat Distraction, Expand Your Time, and Focus on What Matters Most.

Cassie Mogilner Holmes is a professor of marketing and behavioral decision making at the UCLA Anderson School of Management.

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.

The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.

Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.

The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.

(0922-2WNE)

Finding a new favorite celebrity feels a little bit like falling in love. Perhaps you find their smile endearing, or you relate to their sense of humor. Maybe you see things in your everyday routine that remind you of them. You feel like you know them so well. But whether it’s a star athlete or a Hollywood type, the reality is they likely have no idea who you are.

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we explore how we can develop deep connections with complete strangers — and how that in turn makes us feel more known.

BTS is the biggest boy band in the world but their popularity is not only thanks to their musical talents and highly choreographed performances. BTS has, like many other K-pop groups in South Korea, perfected the art of cultivating relationships with their fans. But when idols fail to meet fan expectations, there can be drastic consequences.

Hannah Sung explains what drew her to BTS and sheds light on the power of their fandom, known as ARMY.

Hannah Sung is a journalist and co-founder of the Media Girlfriends podcast company.

Crystal Tai tells the story of another K-pop idol, Lee Sungmin, who went from being one of Super Junior’s most popular members to being boycotted for the last decade, due to what is known in the industry as a “dating scandal.”

Crystal Tai is a senior managing editor at Jing Daily and author of the book Honjok.

Next, Katy speaks with Anuj Shah about research that shows even small tidbits of information about a stranger can cause people to mistakenly think that stranger knows them, and how a neighborhood policing initiative tested this hypothesis with surprising results.

You can read more in a paper he co-authored called Knowledge about others reduces one’s own sense of anonymity.

Anuj Shah is an associate professor of behavioral science at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business.

Choiceology is an original podcast fromCharles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.

All corporate names are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.

Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.

The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.

Apple Podcasts and the Apple logo are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.

Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.

(00423-3ZRB)