Ben & Jerry's vs. Darth Vader, pt 1

05/14/24 • 67 min

Wicked Problems - Climate Tech Conversations

For the first time anywhere, a law will make carbon polluters financially liable for climate damage.

Here is part 1, about Vermont's groundbreaking Climate Superfund Bill. With independent climate journalist Dana Drugmand and climate litigation expert Nigel Brook, the discussion explores the implications of this pioneering legislation, its potential impact on fossil fuel companies, and the broader context of climate litigation globally.

Dana Drugmand

Vermont’s Climate Superfund Bill

Grassroots advocacy and the Make Big Oil Pay campaign.

Impact of the 2023 Vermont floods on the bill's momentum.

Climate Attribution Science

Differentiation between event attribution and source attribution.

The role of key studies like the Carbon Majors report in linking emissions to specific companies.

Legal Challenges and Future Outlook

Anticipated legal battles and possible federal court involvement.

Speculations on the bill’s impact if passed and potential ripple effects globally.

Nigel Brook

European Court of Human Rights - Klimaseniorren

Discussion on the ECHR ruling against the Swiss government for inadequate climate protection.

Nigel explains its significance and potential for inspiring similar cases in Europe and globally.

ClientEarth Case and Potential for Future Litigation

Analysis of the ClientEarth case in English courts and its implications.

Speculation on how new precedents might affect future climate litigation efforts.

Vermont’s Climate Superfund Bill’s Global Impact

Discussion on how Vermont’s Climate Superfund Bill might influence global climate accountability efforts.

Potential parallels with existing U.S. lawsuits against oil majors.

Tobacco Litigation Parallel and Future of Climate Accountability

Comparison of climate litigation to past tobacco lawsuits.

Potential outcomes if the Vermont bill sets a precedent.

Guests:

Dana Drugman - Independent climate journalist, founder of One Earth Now and expert on climate litigation and policy.

Nigel Brook - Consultant with Clyde & Co., specialising in climate risk and litigation.

Connect

BlueSky

[email protected]

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For the first time anywhere, a law will make carbon polluters financially liable for climate damage.

Dana Drugmand

Vermont’s Climate Superfund Bill

Grassroots advocacy and the Make Big Oil Pay campaign.

Impact of the 2023 Vermont floods on the bill's momentum.

Climate Attribution Science

Differentiation between event attribution and source attribution.

The role of key studies like the Carbon Majors report in linking emissions to specific companies.

Legal Challenges and Future Outlook

Anticipated legal battles and possible federal court involvement.

Speculations on the bill’s impact if passed and potential ripple effects globally.

Nigel Brook

European Court of Human Rights - Klimaseniorren

Discussion on the ECHR ruling against the Swiss government for inadequate climate protection.

Nigel explains its significance and potential for inspiring similar cases in Europe and globally.

ClientEarth Case and Potential for Future Litigation

Analysis of the ClientEarth case in English courts and its implications.

Speculation on how new precedents might affect future climate litigation efforts.

Vermont’s Climate Superfund Bill’s Global Impact

Discussion on how Vermont’s Climate Superfund Bill might influence global climate accountability efforts.

Potential parallels with existing U.S. lawsuits against oil majors.

Tobacco Litigation Parallel and Future of Climate Accountability

Comparison of climate litigation to past tobacco lawsuits.

Potential outcomes if the Vermont bill sets a precedent.

Guests:

Dana Drugman - Independent climate journalist, founder of One Earth Now and expert on climate litigation and policy.

Nigel Brook - Consultant with Clyde & Co., specialising in climate risk and litigation.

Connect

BlueSky

[email protected]

Rate and Review us: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Previous Episode

Dr. Anatol Lieven: Can the Nation-State survive climate change?

In this episode of Wicked Problems - Climate Tech Conversations, we delve into the intersecting crises of climate change, internal disintegration, and global security with Dr. Anatol Lieven, Quincy Institute Eurasia programme director. With a stellar career as a journalist, scholar, and author, Dr. Lieven brings a wealth of expertise to discuss the mounting challenges facing democracies worldwide.

Key Topics Discussed:

Security Establishments and Climate Change:Dr. Lieven argues that inherited institutional priorities have led security establishments to focus on external threats, while the real challenges lie in internal disintegration driven by climate change, migration, and socioeconomic inequality.

Green New Deal and Nationalism:A compelling advocate for a Green New Deal, but on “realist” grounds, Dr. Lieven emphasizes the importance of compensating those most affected by climate policies while ensuring that the rich bear their share of the burden. He suggests that patriotism should be harnessed to mobilize public support.

U.S. Political Crisis and Constitutional Flaws:Lieven critiques the U.S. Constitution as "not fit for purpose" and explores the potential for a severe political crisis in the event of a contested 2024 election. He underscores the danger of both sides refusing to back down.

Global Shocks and the Importance of Resilience:The need to build resilience against global shocks is paramount, argues Lieven. He discusses how competition with China can help, but warns that "just-in-time" supply chains are profoundly dangerous.

Migration and Internal Stability:Migration remains a crucial issue affecting Western democracies, and Dr. Lieven describes how differing ideas about national identity can lead to severe polarization. He likens it to the challenges facing Middle Eastern democracies.

Dr. Lieven’s Catalysts

The Uninhabitable Earth by David Wallace-Wells

The Economics of Climate Change: The Stern Review by Nicholas Stern

Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared Diamond

About the Guest: Dr. Anatol Lieven is the Director of the Eurasia Program at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft. He has had a distinguished career as a journalist covering the former Soviet Union and Pakistan and has held academic positions at King's College London and Georgetown University in Qatar. He is the author of Climate Change and the Nation State.

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Richard Delevan

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Next Episode

Ben & Jerry's vs. Darth Vader, pt 2

In this episode of Wicked Problems: Climate Tech Conversations, host Richard Delevan dives into groundbreaking new law in Vermont and its potential to reshape the fight against climate change. Richard is joined by two distinguished guests: Lucy Maxwell, Co-Director of the Climate Litigation Network, and Tobias Engelmeier, Co-Founder of Munich-based climate tech startup VIDA. They explore the intersection of litigation, legislation, and technological innovation in tackling climate change and holding major carbon polluters accountable.

Key Topics Discussed:

Interview with Lucy Maxwell

Lucy Maxwell discusses her role as Co-Director of the Climate Litigation Network and the organisation's work in climate justice.

Climate Superfund Act: Lucy explains the significance of the Vermont Climate Superfund Act, which seeks to fund climate adaptation and infrastructure resilience through damages collected from major polluters.

Human Rights Litigation: Insights into the human rights-based litigation approach, exemplified by cases like the Urgenda ruling and the recent European Court of Human Rights decision involving Swiss senior women.

Global Impact: Lucy highlights how these legal precedents are influencing climate litigation worldwide, including in Korea, Australia, and Latin America.

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Interview with Tobias Engelmeier

Tobias introduces VIDA, which leverages satellite imagery and advanced data analytics to assess climate risks and opportunities for infrastructure projects.

Climate Data and Technology: Discussion on how VIDA technology provides granular climate risk assessments, helping investors, insurers, and governments make informed decisions about infrastructure resilience.

Vermont Legislation's Relevance: Tobias explains why VIDA has been closely monitoring the Vermont Climate Superfund Act and how such legislation could drive demand for climate adaptation technologies.

Future of Climate Adaptation: Insights into the potential for new markets and innovations in climate adaptation driven by legislative and regulatory changes.

Quotes:

Lucy Maxwell: "The climate crisis is a human rights crisis, and governments have human rights obligations to adopt strong and robust climate laws based on science."

Tobias Engelmeier: "We are very excited about the Vermont legislation because it represents a massive change in the legal regulatory environment, potentially driving demand for climate adaptation technologies."

Featured Guests:

Lucy Maxwell: Co-Director of the Climate Litigation Network, an expert in climate justice and human rights-based litigation.

Tobias Engelmeier: Co-Founder and CEO of VIDA, a Munich-based startup focused on using satellite imagery and data analytics to assess climate risks for infrastructure projects.

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