Wicked Problems - Climate Tech Conversations

In this episode of Wicked Problems, Richard talks with Joe Pretorius, one of the visionaries behind the “toco” currency and co-founder of The Carbon Reserve, a non-profit central bank that will manage the money supply of tocos by matching them with carbon credits, with those assets backing the currency - marking a huge difference in approach to assets from the decentralised, vibes-driven approach of cryptocurrencies. As it launches in Switzerland this week, soon to be followed by a launch in Denmark, discover how this carbon-backed digital currency aims to transform our approach to climate change mitigation and foster a sustainable future.

Episode Highlights:

Genesis of the Toco: Joe explains the inspiration behind Toco, detailing its function as an independent carbon-backed currency designed to directly link everyday economic activities with climate action.

Toco's Mechanism and Impact: Discover how Toco operates, its backing by carbon mitigation assets, and the potential it holds for promoting sustainable practices among individuals and businesses alike.

A Vision for Better Money: Joe shares his philosophical perspective on why a carbon-based currency could be the key to a better world, emphasizing how Toco can enable individuals to make a meaningful climate impact effortlessly.

Personal Journey and Climate Awakening: Joe recounts a pivotal moment that deeply impacted his view on climate change, driving him to seek out innovative solutions and dedicate his efforts to environmental sustainability.

Future Aspirations: Joe reflects on the potential long-term effects of Toco and similar initiatives on global climate policy, expressing hope for a future where financial systems are aligned with environmental goals.

Recommended Reading & Resources

"Ministry for the Future" by Kim Stanley Robinson: A novel that explores the social and economic impacts of climate change, influencing Joe's thinking and many others in the climate tech space.

The Toco App

The Carbon Reserve: Learn more about the organization behind Toco and its mission to combat climate change through financial innovation.

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Rupert Read, co-director of the Climate Majority Project and Professor Emeritus of Philosophy at University of East Anglia.

We mentioned his role in amplifying a piece by Jonathan Leake in the Telegraph, which quoted IPCC jefeJim Skea, and the headline of which piece said he was calling time of death on the Paris Agreement goal of limiting warming to 1.5C.

Skea actually said, "1.5°C is slipping away"— a phrase he notes is usually associated with moment when a person is slipping away from life.

Rupert argues that it's time to admit this failure, embrace the psychological impact, and use it to build momentum for the next phase of the climate struggle. This isn't about giving up; it's about moving beyond the impossible and starting to take adaptation, loss, and damage seriously. Together, we dive into the implications of this hard truth, the resistance from within the climate community, and what happens once we stop pretending we can hold the line at 1.5°C.

Some key points from our conversation include:

1.5°C as the Maginot Line: Read compares the climate community’s adherence to the 1.5°C target to France’s ill-fated defense strategy during World War II. Like the Maginot Line, holding on to 1.5°C when it has already been breached does more harm than good by distracting from more realistic and necessary action.

Admitting Failure, Unlocking Power: Read emphasizes the need to acknowledge failure as a turning point. He references his viral 2018 talk, This Civilization is Finished, which resonated because it wasn't about false hope—it was about truth, grief, and the courage to move forward together. Facing the reality of 1.5°C's loss could catalyze a powerful shift in climate action.

Why Not Everyone Wants to Let Go: Throughout our conversation, we explore the reluctance from key figures in the climate establishment to publicly admit that 1.5°C is gone. Fear of triggering widespread despair or "doomerism" keeps many leaders in line with the 1.5°C goal, but Read counters that the real danger lies in continued denial, not in accepting reality.

The Moral Case for Honesty: In addressing what Read calls the "noble lie" stratagem, he argues that the climate establishment’s reluctance to tell the truth may be well-intentioned, but ultimately, it's misguided. Instead, he advocates for a new narrative—one rooted in courage, collective responsibility, and shared resilience.

Minutes to Midnight: As we edge closer to climate disaster, Read likens our current moment to the final minutes before midnight, where decisions made now will determine the fate of future generations. He believes that accepting we’ve passed the point of no return on 1.5°C is the wake-up call humanity needs to mobilize on adaptation and loss and damage at scale.

As always, we aim to spark difficult conversations, and this episode is no exception. It’s an honest, sometimes uncomfortable, but necessary discussion about where we are in the climate fight—and where we need to go next. Rupert’s insights are invaluable for anyone grappling with the reality of our climate crisis and looking for a path forward that doesn’t rely on false hope, but on actionable truth.

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Here’s the second half of our series on Texas. If you missed the first one, it might be handy to go back listen first.

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Part 2: "Trading Places"

Quentin “Q” Scrimshire (MODO Energy)

Q discusses why Texas, particularly Austin, is becoming a major hub for energy storage and renewables. Modo Energy is a B2B SaaS platform helping battery storage owners maximize returns through benchmarking and revenue forecasting.

Why Texas?

Leading the U.S. in battery storage, Texas was the logical choice for Modo’s U.S. expansion. Austin's tech-friendly culture, lower living costs, and grid under ERCOT played key roles.

Challenges Ahead:

Despite fast renewable growth, Texas' energy market faces political challenges, with anti-net-zero rhetoric clashing against renewable energy's economic reality.

Hailey Eustace (Commplicated)

Hailey shares her experience working with the Texas governor’s office, spotlighting Texas’ strategic deep tech and climate tech investments that have made it a leading climate hub.

The Role of Policy:

Public-private partnerships have been crucial to driving innovation, with early SpaceX investments laying the groundwork for Texas’ tech boom.

Global Appeal:

As an angel investor, Hailey continues to back companies looking at Texas for their U.S. base, highlighting Austin’s central location, ecosystem, and talent.

Q’s Catalysts:

Ray Dalio’s Principles: Quentin uses Dalio’s systematic approach to decision-making to ensure his company’s success.

Jim Rickards: His insights into monetary economics help Q navigate investment and energy markets.

The Smiths (Morrissey): Morrissey’s music gives Quentin inspiration and calm amid startup chaos.

Listen now and subscribe to Wicked Problems for more climate tech conversations at WickedProblems.earth.

Links:

• MODO Energy
• Hailey Eustace (Commplicated, LinkedIn)

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If Texas, oil and gas capital of America, doesn’t come to mind as a climate tech and clean energy hub, you need to get right. Thankfully we’re here for you. Texas has been a magnet for European climate tech startups and scaleups looking to set up shop in the US. Not just for decent music and food, but because (despite Elon Musk’s relocation there) it’s putting innovation on steroids.

With the US election looming in less than three weeks, if you’re feeling glum about the prospects for continued progress on climate solutions in the US if things go...a certain way, take heart. Texas didn’t become the US leader in wind, solar, battery, and energy market design because hyper conservatives like Ted Cruz want to save the sky. It’s the all-American motive of making that bag. So there are plenty of things that founders, regulators, policymakers, and people framing narratives around climate could learn a lot from.

In this episode - which subscribers at wickedproblems.earth received first, so sign up! - we look at Texas's remarkable shift into a leader in renewable energy and a magnet for technology companies. The discussion covers the surprising rise of wind and solar projects in the state, which has led to significant economic growth, despite its conservative political backdrop. The migration trend from San Francisco to Austin, driven by favorable tax policies and a pro-business environment, is also explored.

Journalist Kelly Eisen and Michael Lee, CEO of Octopus Energy U.S., share insights on the complexities of Austin's tech culture, and Texas's energy market dilemmas.

Highlighting innovations in energy efficiency, load flexibility, and future expansion plans, the conversation underscores Texas's pioneering role in transitioning to a decentralized and resilient energy grid. The episode emphasizes the challenges and opportunities within Texas's ambitious energy landscape and concludes with a preview of upcoming industry voices.

In Part 2, coming out soon, we bring you Quentin 'Q' Scrimshire, co-founder and CEO of battery storage software Modo Energy who moved from the UK to Austin, TX to spearhead his company's US expansion. And former Austinite Hailey Eustace, now in the UK, co-founder of the advisory firm Commplicated and with a history of helping fund early-stage companies in Texas like SpaceX, shares insights on the big chasm in startup culture between the UK and US.

But if you sign up at wickedproblems.earth you don't have to wait, and can hear all episodes ad-free as well as our whole 85-episode back catalogue of shows.

00:00 That's Right You're Not from Texas (Ep 1)

01:27 Intro

08:15 Kelsey Eisen, journalist

24:01 Michael Lee, CEO Octopus Energy USA

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In this insightful episode of Wicked Problems, Richard Delevan interviews David Shukman, a seasoned journalist with a 38-year career at the BBC. They talk climate reporting, the challenges faced by the media in covering climate, and the changes in public perception and policy over. David shares personal anecdotes from his career, reflects on climate techn, and his transition to new roles in climate communication.

Key Topics Discussed

Career Reflections:

• David’s early journalism days at Coventry Evening Telegraph.
• Transition from typewriters and smoking in newsrooms to modern-day digital media.
• The evolution of climate reporting and the media’s struggle with recognizing trends.

Changes in Climate Reporting:

• The shift from giving equal weight to climate change deniers to emphasizing peer-reviewed science.
• The impact of the BBC’s move towards "due impartiality."
• Challenges in maintaining impartiality while conveying the scientific consensus on climate issues.

Personal Experiences and Stories:

• David’s transition from BBC to new endeavors.
• His work with business leaders and moderating events like Innovation Zero.
• Reflections on covering climate stories globally, including frontline reporting from Bangladesh.

Climate Technology and Solutions:

• Advances in renewable energy: solar power, wind turbines, and electric vehicles.
• The importance of government policies and incentives in driving technological change.

Future of Climate Communication:

• David’s new book project focusing on climate adaptation and the human impact of climate change.
• The need to bring new voices, like firefighters and first responders, into the climate conversation.

Notable Quotes:

• "The implausible becomes not only plausible but actually kind of normal in society."
• "We had some ludicrous and damaging situations where our coverage didn't reflect where the evidence lay."

Catalysts:

Adaptation in Bangladesh

• Ingenious local solutions like replacing chickens with ducks in flood-prone areas.

Energy Efficiency Insights

• Amory Lovins' perspective on the impact of efficient design in industrial processes.

Historical Inspiration

• David’s great-great-grandfather's embrace of technological transitions, from sail to steam, paralleling today’s shift to renewable energy.

Call to Action: If you enjoyed this conversation, please share it and leave us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Consider becoming a paid subscriber at wickedproblems.earth for ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and to support climate tech storytelling.

Production Credits: Written and edited by Richard Delevan. Production assistance by Thedore Delevan. Wicked Problems - Climate Tech Conversations is a production of Wicked Problems Limited. BBC footage from a documentary produced in Nov 2021 by Kate Stephens. Innovation Zero footage via @solutionshouse

Connect with Us:

• Website: wickedproblems.earth
• Twitter: @rdelevan
• David Shukman

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