During incoming NIH secretary Dr. Jay Bhattacharya's confirmation hearing this week, he vowed to "establish a culture of respect for free speech in science & scientific dissent at the NIH"; he went on to call dissent "the very essence of science". Dr. Bhattacharya has been one of the most outspoken critics of what he perceives to be censorship and the deliberate muzzling of scientists during Covid.

Today, we dive into the complex and contentious issue of censorship—one of the biggest drivers of mistrust in public health. Was it justified for the government to pressure social media companies to remove posts about COVID-19 and vaccines that they deemed dangerous misinformation? Or did that cross a line into stifling free speech?

today, with the Trump administration now overseeing public health, issuing new executive orders aimed at limiting DEI programs, language and studies throughout the federal government.

Do these actions cross the line into censoring science? Why are we caught in a battle between science and free speech, and how did we get here? And how do we move forward?

To help explore these questions, we’re joined by two individuals from very different backgrounds who emerged as important voices during the pandemic: Wilk Wilkinson, a trucking company manager in Central Minnesota and host of the Derate The Hate podcast who has joined forces with scientists such as Dr Francis Collins and Dr Jay Bhattacharya on various topics; and Dr. Maciej Boni, a biology professor at Temple University and infectious disease epidemiologist who worked on the front lines of various outbreaks, from swine flu, bird flu to Covid-19.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Wilk Wilkinson, Braver Angels leader; Host of Derate the Hate podcast; manager of trucking operations

Dr. Maciej Boni, professor of biology at Temple University; infectious disease epidemiologist

Sources:

Mark Zuckerberg’s letter to Rep. Jim Jordan

https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/PDFFiles/Mark-Zuckerberg-Letter-on-Govt-Censorship.pdf

Rep. Jim Jordan’s investigation into Biden’s “Censorship Scheme”

https://judiciary.house.gov/media/in-the-news/jim-jordan-launches-misinformation-investigation-uncover-biden-censorship-scheme

Free speech and content moderation

https://www.newsweek.com/covid-censorship-facebook-stretched-first-amendment-free-speech-lawyers-1945595

Supreme Court: Murthy v. Missouri

https://hms.harvard.edu/news/whats-stake-us-supreme-court-case-misinformation

Supreme Court: Missouri v. Biden

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-censorship-proved-to-be-deadly-social-media-government-pandemic-health-697c32c4

Biden & Social Media

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/16/us/politics/biden-facebook-social-media-covid.html

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In this special episode, we dig into the origins of the pandemic. Has America decided it began with a lab leak? Is the debate over?

The Trump administration says yes, launching a new government website asserting that Covid originated in a lab, not from animal-to-human transmission at the now-infamous Wuhan market. In recent days, Trump signed an executive order halting gain-of-function research, the type his administration claims caused the alleged leak. Tulsi Gabbard, now Director of National Intelligence, says she’s working on the definitive report. And Senator Rand Paul is once again calling for Dr. Fauci to be held accountable.

But talk to many scientists, and the response is clear: not so fast.

To help us unpack where the evidence stands—and how politics is reshaping the conversation—we're joined by three returning guests: Dr. Paul Offit, infectious disease expert at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia; Dr. Maciej Boni, epidemiologist and professor at Temple University who was part of an early research effort into Covid’s origins; and David Wallace-Wells, New York Times science columnist and longtime chronicler of the pandemic’s many turns.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Dr. Maggie Bartlett

Guests:

Dr Paul Offit, infectious disease pediatrician, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia

Dr Maciek Boni, infectious disease epidemiologist, Temple University

David Wallace Wells, science writer, New York Times

Tulsi Gabbard on Gain on Function Research and Covid Origins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMKTSYxto_Y

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We’re joined by Emily Jashinsky, co-host of Counterpoints with Ryan Grim. Formerly with The Federalist and The Hill, Emily now serves as DC correspondent for UnHerd and hosts Undercurrents TV. She’s someone well-versed in this shifting media landscape.

Together, we explore the rise of the so-called “New Media”—a world where legacy outlets are giving way to right-leaning podcasters, YouTubers, and social media influencers. As trust in public health, science, and institutions craters, we ask: is this new media ecosystem fueling the breakdown, or finally reflecting a mistrust that’s been simmering for years?

And while critics on the Left call this new media machine unstoppable—blaming it for everything from Trump’s rise to the collapse of trust in science—we push back on that narrative. Could this shifting landscape actually offer unexpected opportunities for public health voices willing to step into the fray?

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett (off this week)

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek (off this week)

Guest:

Emily Jashinsky, former The Federalist, The Hill, co-host of Counterpoints web and podcast show; and the DC correspondent of UnHerd - a news and current affairs site and host of Undercurrents TV.

Sources:

Media Matters "Bubbles" Graphic on Dominance of Right-Leaning Media

https://x.com/GoAngelo/status/1900959918040989731
Joe Rogan Podcast, Dave Smith, Doug Murray, on Expertise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah6kirkSwTg

Emily Jashinsky: Legacy Media Indict Themselves When They Blame the "Right Wing Media Ecosystem"

https://thefederalist.com/2024/11/08/legacy-media-indict-themselves-when-they-blame-the-right-wing-media-ecosystem/

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Do you believe in ghosts? The paranormal? Hold that thought. Believe it or not, it ties directly into the themes of our show.

Trust in our institutions is crumbling—from government and media to higher education, and yes, even medicine, science, and public health. Today’s guest, Pulitzer Prize finalist and author of the new book The Ghost Lab , Matt Hongoltz-Hetling, joins us to explore the growing belief in the paranormal—and what it reveals about our national psyche.

He argues that our fascination with ghosts, aliens, and the unexplained may be more than fringe curiosity. It could be a lens into where our deepening mistrust is leading us.

We talk about how the scientific method is being used to investigate hauntings, why medical associations might consider hiring a resident medium, and how something as strange-sounding as moisturizing with snail mucin might contain unexpected insight into building trust.

This is a conversation about the difference between healthy skepticism and corrosive doubt—and what rises to replace expertise when the experts no longer hold sway.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Matt Hongoltz-Hetling, investigative journalist and author of The Ghost Lab and If It Sounds Like a Quack.
Sources:

NYT Opinion by Matt Hongoltz-Hetling
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/29/opinion/medical-freedom-cancer-rfk.html

Every Doctor Faces This Dilemma

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/20/opinion/doctors-vaccines-patients.html

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"Big Pharma" — two words that Americans love to hate. When asked about the pharmaceutical industry, most of the country responds with a mix of anger and suspicion, using terms like "corporate capture," "revolving door," and "profits over people" to describe its influence, a sentiment felt even stronger after the pandemic. And yet, we are a nation that depends on their life-saving, life-improving products. Americans demand innovation from Big Pharma, but are simultaneously frustrated and mistrustful of their motives and influence. Today, we delve into our complex relationship with the pharmaceutical industry. What fuels this mistrust? Is there a better system? Joining us is bioethicist, author, and TED Talk star hailing from Penn State University Jonathan Marks, who believes it doesn’t have to be this way.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Jonathan Marks, Director of Bioethics Program at Penn State University, lawyer, author The Perils of Partnership: Industry Influence, Institutional Integrity, and Public Health

Sources:

2019 pharma ranked least well regarded industry

https://news.gallup.com/poll/266060/big-pharma-sinks-bottom-industry-rankings.aspx

2023 Gallup on pharma

https://news.gallup.com/poll/510641/retail-pharmaceutical-industries-slip-public-esteem.aspx

Lessons from Corporate Influence in the Opioid Epidemic https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32661741/

STAT on financial donations to Congress

https://www.statnews.com/feature/prescription-politics/federal-full-data-set/

NIH funds drug research

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5878010/

TED TALK: Jonathan Marks: In Praise of Conflict

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf8j5LFv3nI

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