How Do You Solve a Problem Like Big Pharma? We Ask a Bioethicist

Explicit content warning

03/13/25 • 71 min

"Big Pharma" — two words that Americans love to hate. When asked about the pharmaceutical industry, most of the country responds with a mix of anger and suspicion, using terms like "corporate capture," "revolving door," and "profits over people" to describe its influence, a sentiment felt even stronger after the pandemic. And yet, we are a nation that depends on their life-saving, life-improving products. Americans demand innovation from Big Pharma, but are simultaneously frustrated and mistrustful of their motives and influence. Today, we delve into our complex relationship with the pharmaceutical industry. What fuels this mistrust? Is there a better system? Joining us is bioethicist, author, and TED Talk star hailing from Penn State University Jonathan Marks, who believes it doesn’t have to be this way.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Jonathan Marks, Director of Bioethics Program at Penn State University, lawyer, author The Perils of Partnership: Industry Influence, Institutional Integrity, and Public Health

Sources:

2019 pharma ranked least well regarded industry

https://news.gallup.com/poll/266060/big-pharma-sinks-bottom-industry-rankings.aspx

2023 Gallup on pharma

https://news.gallup.com/poll/510641/retail-pharmaceutical-industries-slip-public-esteem.aspx

Lessons from Corporate Influence in the Opioid Epidemic https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32661741/

STAT on financial donations to Congress

https://www.statnews.com/feature/prescription-politics/federal-full-data-set/

NIH funds drug research

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5878010/

TED TALK: Jonathan Marks: In Praise of Conflict

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf8j5LFv3nI

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Got questions? Comments? We'd love to hear from you! Email us at [email protected]

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guest:

Jonathan Marks, Director of Bioethics Program at Penn State University, lawyer, author The Perils of Partnership: Industry Influence, Institutional Integrity, and Public Health

Sources:

2019 pharma ranked least well regarded industry

https://news.gallup.com/poll/266060/big-pharma-sinks-bottom-industry-rankings.aspx

2023 Gallup on pharma

https://news.gallup.com/poll/510641/retail-pharmaceutical-industries-slip-public-esteem.aspx

Lessons from Corporate Influence in the Opioid Epidemic https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32661741/

STAT on financial donations to Congress

https://www.statnews.com/feature/prescription-politics/federal-full-data-set/

NIH funds drug research

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5878010/

TED TALK: Jonathan Marks: In Praise of Conflict

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf8j5LFv3nI

Thanks for listening! If you like us, please leave a review, rate us, and please subscribe!
Got questions? Comments? We'd love to hear from you! Email us at [email protected]

Previous Episode

Censorship vs. Science: The Fight Over Free Speech That Is Tearing Us Apart

During incoming NIH secretary Dr. Jay Bhattacharya's confirmation hearing this week, he vowed to "establish a culture of respect for free speech in science & scientific dissent at the NIH"; he went on to call dissent "the very essence of science". Dr. Bhattacharya has been one of the most outspoken critics of what he perceives to be censorship and the deliberate muzzling of scientists during Covid.

Today, we dive into the complex and contentious issue of censorship—one of the biggest drivers of mistrust in public health. Was it justified for the government to pressure social media companies to remove posts about COVID-19 and vaccines that they deemed dangerous misinformation? Or did that cross a line into stifling free speech?

today, with the Trump administration now overseeing public health, issuing new executive orders aimed at limiting DEI programs, language and studies throughout the federal government.

Do these actions cross the line into censoring science? Why are we caught in a battle between science and free speech, and how did we get here? And how do we move forward?

To help explore these questions, we’re joined by two individuals from very different backgrounds who emerged as important voices during the pandemic: Wilk Wilkinson, a trucking company manager in Central Minnesota and host of the Derate The Hate podcast who has joined forces with scientists such as Dr Francis Collins and Dr Jay Bhattacharya on various topics; and Dr. Maciej Boni, a biology professor at Temple University and infectious disease epidemiologist who worked on the front lines of various outbreaks, from swine flu, bird flu to Covid-19.

Hosts:

Brinda Adhikari

Tom Johnson

Maggie Bartlett

Dr. Mark Abdelmalek

Guests:

Wilk Wilkinson, Braver Angels leader; Host of Derate the Hate podcast; manager of trucking operations

Dr. Maciej Boni, professor of biology at Temple University; infectious disease epidemiologist

Sources:

Mark Zuckerberg’s letter to Rep. Jim Jordan

https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/PDFFiles/Mark-Zuckerberg-Letter-on-Govt-Censorship.pdf

Rep. Jim Jordan’s investigation into Biden’s “Censorship Scheme”

https://judiciary.house.gov/media/in-the-news/jim-jordan-launches-misinformation-investigation-uncover-biden-censorship-scheme

Free speech and content moderation

https://www.newsweek.com/covid-censorship-facebook-stretched-first-amendment-free-speech-lawyers-1945595

Supreme Court: Murthy v. Missouri

https://hms.harvard.edu/news/whats-stake-us-supreme-court-case-misinformation

Supreme Court: Missouri v. Biden

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-censorship-proved-to-be-deadly-social-media-government-pandemic-health-697c32c4

Biden & Social Media

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/16/us/politics/biden-facebook-social-media-covid.html

Thanks for listening! If you like us, please leave a review, rate us, and please subscribe!
Got questions? Comments? We'd love to hear from you! Email us at [email protected]

Next Episode

On Measles: Vaccines vs Vitamin A. Plus, What Marion Nestle Says Public Health Is Getting Wrong

Amid a deadly measles outbreak, a fresh battle has erupted, pitting mainstream public health against MAHA, infectious disease against chronic disease, and Vitamin A against vaccination. It's a fight that hinges on a fundamental question: Is your illness driven more by infectious disease or underlying chronic conditions? One side argues that vaccination is the only way to prevent measles. At the same time, the other emphasizes diet, nutrition, and Vitamin A, even bringing up cod liver oil as part of the discussion. Then there's MAHA's passion to address America’s unhealthy diet. Should critics of MAHA separate what they agree with from what they don't? In this episode, we unpack the fight amid an outbreak and hear from Marion Nestle, one of America’s leading nutritionists and public health experts.

Sources:

Vitamin A and Measles

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7076287/

Vitamin A deficiency

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022316622012238?via%3Dihub

RFK Jr on Foxnews:
https://www.foxnews.com/video/6369595673112

RFK Jr with Sean Hannity

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6369888081112

Interview of parents of child in TX measles outbreak death
https://live.childrenshealthdefense.org/chd-tv/shows/good-morning-chd/breaking-news-parents-of-child-in-texas-measles-outbreak-death/

Thanks for listening! If you like us, please leave a review, rate us, and please subscribe!
Got questions? Comments? We'd love to hear from you! Email us at [email protected]