Black Scare / Red Scare with Charisse Burden-Stelly

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11/21/23 • 64 min

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The Red Scare — perhaps most well known through the era of McCarthyism that dominated the social, political, and legal spheres of the U.S. in the 1950s — is actually much more than just a brief window of time where communists in the United States were vilified, criminalized, and blacklisted. The Red Scare is actually much more pervasive and longstanding, originating decades before McCarthyism and stretching well into the present. And, when combined with the Black Scare — the fear and hatred of Black people in the United States — it really forms an entire mode of governance that has shaped the character, policies, and collective consciousness of much of U.S.’s 20th and 21st centuries.

To talk about the Black Scare, the Red Scare, and how they work together to create a specific hegemonic atmosphere and policy landscape in the U.S., we’ve brought on Charisse Burden-Stelly, an Associate Professor of African American studies at Wayne State University, a fellow at the Charles Warren Center for Studies in American History at Harvard University, a member of the Black Alliance for Peace, and author of Black Scare / Red Scare: Theorizing Capitalist Racism in the United States , published by the University of Chicago Press.

In this conversation, we discuss the history of the Red and Black Scares by looking at a few different examples of how these modes of governance overlapped and shaped both policies and people in the 20th century. We also explore how these scares have followed us into the present and how they shape and color more contemporary moments like the George Floyd uprisings, the Stop Cop City movement, or the various solidarity movements for Palestinian liberation here in the United States.

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Previous Episode

A Marxist Perspective on Elections with August Nimtz

“This is the most important election of our lifetimes.” “Voting for a third-party candidate? Might as well throw away your vote!” “You may not like him, but you’ve just got to hold your nose and vote for him — otherwise, Trump might win.”

We're sure you’ve heard each of these lines many times — we know that we have. But, at some point you have to ask: how can every election be the most important one? Am I really throwing away my vote by voting for a candidate whose policies I agree with? Can we ever actually affect change if we’re always voting for the "lesser evil" candidate or party? Isn’t that just a race to the bottom — or, as we're seeing currently, a race towards genocide?

Well, in this conversation, we’re going to tackle all of those questions — and much more — with our guest, August Nimtz, Professor of political science and African American and African studies in the College of Liberal Arts at the University of Minnesota. Professor Nimtz is the author of The Ballot, The Streets, Or Both? published by Haymarket Books.

In this conversation, Professor Nimtz explores the question of electoralism as it relates to revolutionary left politics through a deep dive into the history of the Russian Revolution — examining how Marx, Engels, and Lenin approached electoralism and then applying their analyses and viewpoints to today’s situation.

What is the role of elections for the revolutionary left? How can we engage with electoralism without falling into what Professor Nimtz refers to as “electoral fetishism”? What about the "lesser evil" or "spoiler" phenomenon? How can we build a party for the working and oppressed classes without falling prey to opportunism or bourgeois distraction? What can we learn from the European Revolutions of 1848, the Paris Commune, the Russian Revolution, and other historic attempts at revolution — both successful and unsuccessful? These are just some of the questions and themes we explore in this episode with Professor Nimtz.

Thank you to Bethan Mure for this episode’s cover art and to Noname for the intermission music. Upstream theme music was composed by Robert Raymond/Lanterns.

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If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship

Next Episode

Palestine Pt. 2: Justice for Some with Noura Erakat

For those of us living in the United States, today — what we call Thanksgiving — is a very significant holiday because, for some of us at least, it’s a day to recognize and remember the violent, genocidal, settler-colonial history of the land we live on. Our lives here in North America are predicated on a history and a pattern that is repeating itself as we speak, most notably in occupied Palestine, where we are witnessing what feels like the culmination of a decades-long ethnic cleansing campaign against the Indigenous population of Palestine by the forces of Zionism, the state of Israel, and, by the reigning global hegemon, the United States.

We've already covered some of the history that led us to this point in Part 1 of our ongoing series on Palestine with Sumaya Awad, and on today's show, we're going to be exploring a different angle, outlining the history and context of the formation of the state of Israel, how Palestinians resisted Israeli occupation from before the state was even created, and how they continued to resist throughout the disingenuously named “peace” process that culminated with the Oslo Accords. As we’ll see, this process was never intended to bring a lasting peace to the region, but was intended to cement in the status quo of Israeli supremacy and the ongoing subjugation of Palestinians.

To talk about this we’ve brought on Noura Erakat, Associate Professor at Rutgers University in the department of Africana Studies and the program of Criminal Justice and author of Justice For Some: Law and the Question of Palestine. From the Great Arab Revolt in 1936 to the second Intifada at the start of this century, and up to Operation Al-Aqsa Flood on October 7th, in this conversation we explore the history of Palestinian resistance to Israeli occupation, the so-called peace process, the betrayal of the so-called two-state solution, where Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign is headed, and what it’s up against.

Further Resources:

If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship

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