The Gray Area with Sean Illing
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Yuval Noah Harari on the eclipsing of human intelligence
The Gray Area with Sean Illing
09/16/24 • 87 min
Humans are good learners and teachers, constantly gathering information, archiving, and sharing knowledge. So why, after building the most sophisticated information technology in history, are we on the verge of destroying ourselves? We know more than ever before. But are we any wiser? Bestselling author of Sapiens and historian Yuval Noah Harari doesn’t think so.
This week Sean Illing talks with Harari, author of a mind-bending new book, Nexus: A Brief History of Information Networks, about how the information systems that shape our world often sow the seeds of destruction, and why the current AI revolution is just the beginning of a brand-new evolutionary process that might leave us all behind.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling)
Guest: Yuval Noah Harari (@harari_yuval)
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22 Listeners
7 Comments
7
Nate Silver on why 2020 isn't 2016
The Gray Area with Sean Illing
10/29/20 • 71 min
As you may have heard, there's a pretty important election coming up. That means it's time to bring back the one and only Nate Silver.
Silver, the founder and editor-in-chief of FiveThirtyEight, boasts one of the best election forecasting records of any analyst in the last 15 years. His forecasting models successfully predicted the outcomes in 49 of the 50 states in the 2008 US presidential election and all 50 states in 2012. And in 2016, Silver’s FiveThirtyEight gave Donald Trump a 28 percent chance of victory — a significantly higher percentage than virtually any other prominent analyst at the time. He knows what he’s talking about, and it shows in this conversation. We discuss:
- What went wrong with the polls in 2016 — and whether pollsters today have corrected for those mistakes
- Why a 2016-sized polling error in 2020 would still hand Joe Biden the election
- Why the 2020 race has been so incredibly steady despite a global pandemic, an economic crisis, and the biggest national protest movement in US history
- The possibility of a Biden landslide
- The not-so-small chance that Biden could win Texas and Georgia
- The massive Republican advantage in the Senate, House, and Electoral College — and how that affects our national politics
- Why the Senate would still advantage Republicans, even if Democrats added five blue states.
- Whether the Bernie Sanders left took the wrong lessons from 2016
- Why Biden’s unorthodox 2020 campaign strategy has been so successful
- Whether Sanders would be doing just as well against Trump as Biden is doing
- How a more generic, non-Trump Republican would be faring against Biden
- Why Silver is generally optimistic that we will avoid an electoral crisis on November 3
And much more.
References:
“How FiveThirtyEight’s 2020 Presidential Forecast Works — And What’s Different Because Of COVID-19." Nate Silver, FiveThirtyEight
"The Senate’s Rural Skew Makes It Very Hard For Democrats To Win The Supreme Court." Nate Silver, FiveThirtyEight
Let the People Pick the President: The Case for Abolishing the Electoral College by Jesse Wegman
"Toby Ord on existential risk, Donald Trump, and thinking in probabilities." The Ezra Klein Show
"The Real Story of 2016" by Nate Silver
Book recommendations:
The Biggest Bluff by Maria Konnikova
Superintelligence by Nick Bostrom
The Precipice by Toby Ord
Credits:
Producer/Audio engineer - Jeff Geld
Researcher - Roge Karma
Please consider making a contribution to Vox to support this show: bit.ly/givepodcasts Your support will help us keep having ambitious conversations about big ideas.
New to the show? Want to check out Ezra’s favorite episodes? Check out the Ezra Klein Show beginner’s guide (http://bit.ly/EKSbeginhere)
Want to contact the show? Reach out at [email protected]
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16 Listeners
Is the journey to self-discovery pointless?
The Gray Area with Sean Illing
07/17/23 • 52 min
There are many ways people are trying to know themselves these days – from taking the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator test to analyzing their astrological birth charts to identifying their attachment styles. But are any of these methods helpful? Allie Volpe, a senior reporter at Vox, discusses this with Mitch Green, a philosophy professor at the University of Connecticut and author of the book Know Thyself: The Value and Limits of Self-Knowledge. Together they explore why there’s an increased interest in self-knowledge, the merits of self-discovery, and the best way to truly know ourselves.
Host: Allie Volpe (@allieevolpe), Senior Reporter, Vox
Guest: Mitch Green, Philosophy professor at the University of Connecticut
References:
- “A personality test can’t tell you who you are” by Allie Volpe (Vox, Jun. 2023)
- Know Thyself: The Value and Limits of Self-Knowledge by Mitchell S. Green (2017, Routledge)
- “Why the Meyers-Briggs test is totally meaningless” by Joseph Stromberg and Estelle Caswell (Vox, Oct. 2015)
- Strangers to Ourselves: Discovering the Adaptive Unconscious by Timothy D. Wilson (Harvard University Press, 2004)
Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.
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Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts
This episode was made by:
- Engineer: Patrick Boyd
- Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall
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13 Listeners
Is the cure worse than the disease?
The Gray Area with Sean Illing
03/26/20 • 67 min
"We cannot let the cure be worse than the problem itself!"
That was President Donald Trump, this week, explaining why he was thinking about lifting coronavirus guidelines earlier than public-health experts recommended. The "cure," in this case, is social distancing, and the mass economic stoppage it forces. The problem, of course, is COVID-19, and the millions of deaths it could cause.
This is a debate that needs to be taken seriously. Slowing coronavirus will impose real costs, and immense suffering, on society. Are those costs worth it? This is the most important public policy question right now. And if the discussion isn't had well, then it will be had, as we're already seeing, poorly, and dangerously.
I wanted to take up this question from two different angles. The first dimension is economic: Are we actually facing a choice between lives and economic growth? If we ceased social distancing, could we sustain a normal economy amidst a raging virus? Jason Furman, professor of the practice of economic policy at Harvard’s Kennedy School and President Obama's former chief economist, joins me for that discussion.
But the economy isn't everything. What is a moral framework we can us when faced with this kind of question? So, in the second half of this show, I talk to Dr. Ruth Faden, the founder of the Berman Institute for Bioethics at Johns Hopkins.
And then, at the end, I offer some thoughts on my own on the frightening moment we're living through, and the kind of political and social leadership it demands.
Confused about coronavirus? Here’s a list of the articles, papers, and podcasts we’ve found most useful.
New to the show? Want to check out Ezra’s favorite episodes? Check out the Ezra Klein Show beginner’s guide (http://bit.ly/EKSbeginhere)
Credits:
Producer/Editor - Jeff Geld
Researcher - Roge Karma
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10 Listeners
Is AI creative?
The Gray Area with Sean Illing
10/07/24 • 41 min
What is the relationship between creativity and artificial intelligence? Creativity feels innately human, but is it? Can a machine be creative? Are we still being creative if we use machines to assist in our creative output?
To help answer those questions, Sean speaks with Meghan O'Gieblyn, the author of the book "God, Human, Animal, Machine: Technology, Metaphor, and the Search for Meaning." She and Sean discuss how the rise of AI is forcing us to reflect on what it means to be a creative being and whether our relationship to the written word has already been changed forever.
This is the first conversation in our three shows in three days three-part series about creativity.
Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling)
Guest: Meghan O'Gieblyn (https://www.meghanogieblyn.com/)
References:
God, Human, Animal, Machine: Technology, Metaphor, and the Search for Meaning by Meghan O'Gieblyn (Anchor; 2021)
Being human in the age of AI. The Gray Area. (Vox Media; 2023) https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/being-human-in-the-age-of-ai/id1081584611?i=1000612148857
Support The Gray Area by becoming a Vox Member: https://www.vox.com/support-now
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9 Listeners
3 Comments
3
Why Ta-Nehisi Coates is hopeful
The Gray Area with Sean Illing
06/04/20 • 92 min
The first question I asked Ta-Nehisi Coates, in this episode, was broad: What does he see right now, as he looks out at the country? “I can't believe I'm gonna say this,” he replied, “but I see hope. I see progress right now.”
Coates is the author of the National Book Award-winner Between the World and Me and The Water Dancer, among others. We discuss how this moment differs from 1968, the tension between “law” and “order,” the contested legacy of MLK, Trump's view of the presidency, police abolition, why we need to renegotiate the idea of “the public,” how the consensus on criminal justice has shifted, what Joe Biden represents, the proper role of the state, the poetry Coates recommends, and much more.
But there’s one thread of this conversation, in particular, that I haven’t been able to put down: There is now, as there always is amidst protests, a loud call for the protesters to follow the principles of nonviolence. And that call, as Coates says, comes from people who neither practice nor heed nonviolence in their own lives. But what if we turned that conversation around: What would it mean to build the state around principles of nonviolence, rather than reserving that exacting standard for those harmed by the state?
Book recommendations:
Punishment and Inequality in America by Bruce Western
Marked: Race, Crime, and Finding Work in an Era of Mass Incarceration by Devah Pager
The Country Between Us by Carolyn Forche
Want to contact the show? Reach out at [email protected]
Please consider making a contribution to Vox to support this show: bit.ly/givepodcasts Your support will help us keep having ambitious conversations about big ideas.
New to the show? Want to check out Ezra’s favorite episodes? Check out the Ezra Klein Show beginner’s guide (http://bit.ly/EKSbeginhere)
Credits:
Editor - Jackson Bierfeldt
Researcher - Roge Karma
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9 Listeners
2 Comments
2
Jane Goodall on the power of hope
The Gray Area with Sean Illing
07/22/21 • 62 min
Vox's Sigal Samuel talks with world-renowned primatologist Jane Goodall about what six decades of studying chimpanzees has taught her about humans. They discuss the work people can do to protect animals and the environment, and the immense power of hope.
Host: Sigal Samuel (@SigalSamuel), Senior Reporter, Vox
Guest: Jane Goodall (@JaneGoodallInst), primatologist and author
References:
- Miss Goodall and the Wild Chimpanzees (1965)
- Jane (dir. Brett Morgen; 2018)
- The Mentality of Apes by Wolfgang Köhler (1917; tr. by Ella Winter, 1925)
- Reason for Hope: A Spiritual Journey by Jane Goodall (with Phillip Berman; 2000)
- Jane Goodall Receives 2021 Templeton Prize
- The Book of Hope: A Survival Guide for Trying TImes by Jane Goodall and Douglas Abrams (Celadon; October 2021)
Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.
Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.
Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts
This episode was made by:
- Producer: Erikk Geannikis
- Editor: Amy Drozdowska
- Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
- VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson
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8 Listeners
Tim Urban on humanity’s wild future
The Gray Area with Sean Illing
02/10/20 • 90 min
I’ve been a fan of Tim Urban and his site Wait But Why for a long time. Urban uses whimsical illustrations, infographics, and friendly, nontechnical language to explain everything from AI to space exploration to the Fermi Paradox.
Urban's most recent project is an explainer series called “The Story of Us." It began as an attempt to understand what is going on in American politics today, and quickly turned into a deep exploration into humanity's past: how we evolved, the history of civilization, and the way our psychologies have come to interact with the world around us.
My initial theory of this conversation was that Urban’s work has interesting points of convergence and divergence with my book. But once we got to talking, something more interesting emerged: Based on his reading of human history, psychology, and technological advancement, Urban has come to believe we are at an existential fork-in-the-road as a species. A hundred years from now, Urban thinks, our species will either advance so significantly that we will no longer be recognizable as human beings, or we will so lose control of our progress that the human story will end in a destructive apocalypse. I’m less convinced, but open to the idea that I’m wrong.
So this, then, isn’t just a conversation about politics and polarization in the present. It’s more fully a conversation about whether the politics of the present are distracting us from the forces that are, even as we speak, deciding our future.
References:
Dave Robert’s piece on Tim Urban’s aversion to politics
My conversation with Andrew Yang
Book recommendations:
A Little History of the World by E.H. Gombrich
The Three-Body Problem by Cixin Liu
Atomic Habits by James Clear
New to the show? Want to listen to Ezra's favorite episodes? Check out The Ezra Klein Show beginner's guide.
My book is available at www.EzraKlein.com.
The “Why We’re Polarized” tour continues, with events in Portland, Seattle, Austin, Nashville, Chicago, and Greenville. Go to WhyWerePolarized.com for the full schedule!
Want to contact the show? Reach out at [email protected]
Credits:
Producer - Jeff Geld
Researcher - Roge Karma
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8 Listeners
Is big tech addictive? Nir Eyal and I debate.
The Gray Area with Sean Illing
08/01/19 • 79 min
“How do successful companies create products people can’t put down?”
That’s the opening line of the description for Nir Eyal’s bestselling 2014 book Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products. Hooked became a staple in Silicon Valley circles — it was even recommended to me when I started Vox — and Eyal became a celebrity.
Today, Silicon Valley’s skill at building habit-forming products is looked on more skeptically, to say the least. So I was interested to see him releasing a second book that seemed a hard reversal: Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life.
But Eyal doesn’t think big tech is addictive, and he sees the rhetoric of people who do — like me — as “ridiculous.” He believes the answer to digital distraction lies in individuals learning to exercise forethought and discipline, not demonizing companies that make products people love.
Eyal and I disagree quite a bit in this conversation. But it’s a disagreement worth having. Life is the sum total of what we pay attention to. Who is in control of that attention, and how we can wrest it back, is a central question of our age.
Book Recommendations:
Lost Connections: Why You’re Depressed and How to Find Hope by Johann Hari
Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us by Daniel Pink
Moby Dick by Herman Melville
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6 Listeners
3 Comments
3
The Joe Biden experience
The Gray Area with Sean Illing
11/07/20 • 68 min
Joe Biden will be the 46th president of the United States. And — counting the votes of people, not just land — it won’t be close. If current trends hold, Biden will see a larger popular vote margin than Hillary Clinton in 2016, Barack Obama in 2012, or George W. Bush in 2004.
Commentary over the past few days has focused on the man he beat, and the incompetent coup being attempted in plain sight. But I want to focus on Biden, who is one of the more misunderstood figures in American politics — including, at times, by me.
Biden has been in national politics for almost five decades. And so, people tend to understand the era of Joe Biden they encountered first — the centrist Senate dealmaker, or the overconfident foreign policy hand, or the meme-able vice president, or the grieving, grave father. But Biden, more so than most politicians, changes. And it’s how he changes, and why, that’s key to understanding his campaign, and his likely presidency.
Evan Osnos is a staff writer at the New Yorker and the author of Joe Biden: The Life, the Run, and What Matters Now, a sharp biography of the next president. Osnos and I discuss:
- The mystery of Joe Biden’s first political campaign
- Why the Joe Biden who entered the Senate in 1980 is such a radically different person than the Joe Biden who ran for president in 2020
- What the Senate taught Biden
- Biden’s ideological flexibility, and the theory of politics that drives it
- The differences between Biden’s three presidential campaigns -- and what they reveal about how he’s grown
- The way Biden views disagreement, and why that’s so central to his understanding of politics
- How Biden’s relationship with Barack Obama changed his approach to governance
- The similarities — and differences — between how Obama and Biden think about politics
- Why Biden is “the perfect weathervane for where the center of the Democratic party is.”
- Biden’s relationship with Mitch McConnell
- How Biden thinks about foreign policy
- Why Biden has become more skeptical about the use of American military might in the last decade
And much more.
Book recommendations:
Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman
The Field of Blood by Joanne B. Freeman
The Ideas That Made America by Jennifer Ratner-Rosenhagen
Credits:
Producer/Audio engineer - Jeff Geld
Researcher - Roge Karma
Please consider making a contribution to Vox to support this show: bit.ly/givepodcasts Your support will help us keep having ambitious conversations about big ideas.
New to the show? Want to check out Ezra’s favorite episodes? Check out the Ezra Klein Show beginner’s guide (http://bit.ly/EKSbeginhere)
Want to contact the show? Reach out at [email protected]
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
5 Listeners
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FAQ
How many episodes does The Gray Area with Sean Illing have?
The Gray Area with Sean Illing currently has 691 episodes available.
What topics does The Gray Area with Sean Illing cover?
The podcast is about News, Society & Culture, Podcasts, Philosophy and Politics.
What is the most popular episode on The Gray Area with Sean Illing?
The episode title 'Yuval Noah Harari on the eclipsing of human intelligence' is the most popular.
What is the average episode length on The Gray Area with Sean Illing?
The average episode length on The Gray Area with Sean Illing is 70 minutes.
How often are episodes of The Gray Area with Sean Illing released?
Episodes of The Gray Area with Sean Illing are typically released every 4 days.
When was the first episode of The Gray Area with Sean Illing?
The first episode of The Gray Area with Sean Illing was released on Feb 4, 2016.
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