Tim Urban on humanity’s wild future
02/10/20 • 90 min
8 Listeners
I’ve been a fan of Tim Urban and his site Wait But Why for a long time. Urban uses whimsical illustrations, infographics, and friendly, nontechnical language to explain everything from AI to space exploration to the Fermi Paradox.
Urban's most recent project is an explainer series called “The Story of Us." It began as an attempt to understand what is going on in American politics today, and quickly turned into a deep exploration into humanity's past: how we evolved, the history of civilization, and the way our psychologies have come to interact with the world around us.
My initial theory of this conversation was that Urban’s work has interesting points of convergence and divergence with my book. But once we got to talking, something more interesting emerged: Based on his reading of human history, psychology, and technological advancement, Urban has come to believe we are at an existential fork-in-the-road as a species. A hundred years from now, Urban thinks, our species will either advance so significantly that we will no longer be recognizable as human beings, or we will so lose control of our progress that the human story will end in a destructive apocalypse. I’m less convinced, but open to the idea that I’m wrong.
So this, then, isn’t just a conversation about politics and polarization in the present. It’s more fully a conversation about whether the politics of the present are distracting us from the forces that are, even as we speak, deciding our future.
References:
Dave Robert’s piece on Tim Urban’s aversion to politics
My conversation with Andrew Yang
Book recommendations:
A Little History of the World by E.H. Gombrich
The Three-Body Problem by Cixin Liu
Atomic Habits by James Clear
New to the show? Want to listen to Ezra's favorite episodes? Check out The Ezra Klein Show beginner's guide.
My book is available at www.EzraKlein.com.
The “Why We’re Polarized” tour continues, with events in Portland, Seattle, Austin, Nashville, Chicago, and Greenville. Go to WhyWerePolarized.com for the full schedule!
Want to contact the show? Reach out at [email protected]
Credits:
Producer - Jeff Geld
Researcher - Roge Karma
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
I’ve been a fan of Tim Urban and his site Wait But Why for a long time. Urban uses whimsical illustrations, infographics, and friendly, nontechnical language to explain everything from AI to space exploration to the Fermi Paradox.
Urban's most recent project is an explainer series called “The Story of Us." It began as an attempt to understand what is going on in American politics today, and quickly turned into a deep exploration into humanity's past: how we evolved, the history of civilization, and the way our psychologies have come to interact with the world around us.
My initial theory of this conversation was that Urban’s work has interesting points of convergence and divergence with my book. But once we got to talking, something more interesting emerged: Based on his reading of human history, psychology, and technological advancement, Urban has come to believe we are at an existential fork-in-the-road as a species. A hundred years from now, Urban thinks, our species will either advance so significantly that we will no longer be recognizable as human beings, or we will so lose control of our progress that the human story will end in a destructive apocalypse. I’m less convinced, but open to the idea that I’m wrong.
So this, then, isn’t just a conversation about politics and polarization in the present. It’s more fully a conversation about whether the politics of the present are distracting us from the forces that are, even as we speak, deciding our future.
References:
Dave Robert’s piece on Tim Urban’s aversion to politics
My conversation with Andrew Yang
Book recommendations:
A Little History of the World by E.H. Gombrich
The Three-Body Problem by Cixin Liu
Atomic Habits by James Clear
New to the show? Want to listen to Ezra's favorite episodes? Check out The Ezra Klein Show beginner's guide.
My book is available at www.EzraKlein.com.
The “Why We’re Polarized” tour continues, with events in Portland, Seattle, Austin, Nashville, Chicago, and Greenville. Go to WhyWerePolarized.com for the full schedule!
Want to contact the show? Reach out at [email protected]
Credits:
Producer - Jeff Geld
Researcher - Roge Karma
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Previous Episode
Jill Lepore on what I get wrong
Jill Lepore is a Harvard historian, a New Yorker contributor, the author of These Truths, and one of my favorite past guests on this show. But in this episode, the tables are turned: I’m in the hot seat, and Lepore has some questions. Hard ones.
This is, easily, the toughest interview on my book so far. Lepore isn’t quibbling over my solutions or pointing out a contrary study — what she challenges are the premises, epistemology, and meta-structure that form the foundation of my book, and much of my work. Her question, in short, is: What if social science itself is too crude to be a useful way of understanding the political world?
But that’s what makes this conversation great. We discuss whether all political science research on polarization might be completely wrong, why (and whether) my book is devoid of individual or institutional “villains,” and whether I am morally obliged to delete my Twitter account, in addition to the missing party in American politics, why I mistrust historical narratives, media polarization, and much more.
This is, on one level, a conversation about Why We’re Polarized. But on a deeper level, it’s about different modes of knowledge and whether we can trust them.
New to the show? Want to listen to Ezra's favorite episodes? Check out The Ezra Klein Show beginner's guide.
My book is available at www.EzraKlein.com.
The “Why We’re Polarized” tour continues, with events in Portland, Seattle, Austin, Nashville, Chicago, and Greenville. Go to WhyWerePolarized.com for the full schedule!
Want to contact the show? Reach out at [email protected]
Credits:
Producer - Jeff Geld
Researcher - Roge Karma
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Next Episode
If God is dead, then … socialism?
Hello! I’m Sean Illing, Vox’s interviews writer filling in for Ezra while he’s on book tour. My guest today is Martin Hägglund, a philosopher at Yale and the author of This Life: Secular Faith and Spiritual Freedom, which I consider to be one of the most ambitious and important books in the last several years.
We begin by discussing what it means to live a free and purposeful life without regret or illusion. For Hägglund, this life is all we have. There is no heaven, no afterlife, no eternal beyond. We live and we die and that means that the most important question any of us can possibly ask is, “What should we do with our time?”
We end by talking about the limits of capitalism, namely why it doesn’t really allow us to own our time in the way we ought to. And thus why, for Hägglund, democratic socialism is the only political project that takes the human condition seriously.
This is an unusual conversation, but, I have to say, I loved it. I appreciate and admire Hägglund’s willingness to tackle the biggest questions any us can ever ask, and I think by the end of it you will, too.
Book recommendations:
Fellow Creatures: Our Obligations to the other animals by Christine Korsgaard
On the Soul (De Anima) by Aristotle
Phenomenology of Spirit by G.W.F Hegel
Follow Sean Illing at Vox or on Twitter @seanilling
New to the show? Want to listen to Ezra's favorite episodes? Check out The Ezra Klein Show beginner's guide.
Ezra's book is available at www.EzraKlein.com.
The “Why We’re Polarized” tour continues, with events in Austin, Nashville, Chicago, and Greenville. Go to WhyWerePolarized.com for the full schedule!
Want to contact the show? Reach out at [email protected]
Credits:
Guest host - Sean Illing
Producer - Jeff Geld
Researcher - Roge Karma
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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