Episode 252: Nolan Lawson of PouchDB on what it feels like to be a maintainer
10/18/24 • 36 min
Nolan Lawson
PanelistRichard Littauer | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman
Show NotesIn this episode of Sustain, Richard, Justin, and Eric revisit an unreleased interview with Nolan Lawson from 2020. They discuss Nolan's experience as a former maintainer of PouchDB, the emotional labor of being an open source maintainer, and the challenges that led him to step away from such high-profile projects. Nolan also shares his thoughts on the impact of reputation-driven development, open source community dynamics, and his journey towards a healthier relationship with open source. The conversation delves into the candid realities of burnout and the personal sacrifices often made by unpaid open source contributors. Nolan highlights his transition to more sustainable open source practices and his new interests including his work on a Mastodon client called Pinafore. Download now to hear more!
[00:01:43] Nolan explains his background with PouchDB and shares his fascination with databases and browser technologies.
[00:02:58] Richard shares his personal connection to PouchDB, mentioning how he discovered Nolan through his work on the project.
[00:03:26] Nolan talks about his blog post form 2017 titled, “What it feels like to be an open source maintainer,” which reflected on the emotional toll and burnout he experienced for maintaining PouchDB.
[00:05:33] Justin reflects on the impact of Nolan’s blog post, describing it as a “shot heard around the world” in the open source community.
[00:06:48] Eric asks why Nolan and other maintainers stay involved in open source despite the challenges. Nolan explains that reputational benefits and personal interest in the technology were initial motivators for staying involved.
[00:10:27] Eric asks Nolan how he realized it was time to step away from maintaining PouchDB. Nolan shares that personal life changes helped him reassess his involvement in open source and reflects on advice he received from other maintainers.
[00:14:36] Richard emphasizes the personal and emotional investment many maintainers have in their projects and Nolan acknowledges the privilege of being able to work on open source, but also the challenges it poses for maintainers who feel they cannot leave.
[00:21:13] Nolan shares stepping away from PouchDB has improved his mental health and personal relationships and he maintains smaller open source projects.
[00:24:00] Nolan explains the importance of being personally invested in a project and realizing when it’s time to move on and Justin reflects on his own experience of stepping away from maintaining a project after years of involvement.
[00:26:00] Eric asks if funding could have made a difference for Nolan’s involvement in open source, and Nolan shares that he avoided funding, preferring to keep his work as a “labor of love.”
[00:26:52] What is Nolan currently doing? He talks about maintaining a Mastodon client and focusing on personal projects that bring him joy.
[00:30:00] Richard discusses the importance of balancing open source work with personal life and the need for a sustainable approach to maintaining projects.
[00:30:46] Eric highlights the vulnerability and self-awareness Nolan has shown in discussing his open source journey, thanking him for sharing his experiences.
[00:33:13] Find out where you can follow Nolan on the internet.
Spotlight- [00:33:41] Justin’s spotlight is Metabase.
- [00:34:16] Eric’s spotlight is Parametric.
- [00:35:08] Richard’s spotlight is IPFS.
- [00:35:22] Nolan’s spotlight is fake-indexeddb.
Nolan Lawson
PanelistRichard Littauer | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman
Show NotesIn this episode of Sustain, Richard, Justin, and Eric revisit an unreleased interview with Nolan Lawson from 2020. They discuss Nolan's experience as a former maintainer of PouchDB, the emotional labor of being an open source maintainer, and the challenges that led him to step away from such high-profile projects. Nolan also shares his thoughts on the impact of reputation-driven development, open source community dynamics, and his journey towards a healthier relationship with open source. The conversation delves into the candid realities of burnout and the personal sacrifices often made by unpaid open source contributors. Nolan highlights his transition to more sustainable open source practices and his new interests including his work on a Mastodon client called Pinafore. Download now to hear more!
[00:01:43] Nolan explains his background with PouchDB and shares his fascination with databases and browser technologies.
[00:02:58] Richard shares his personal connection to PouchDB, mentioning how he discovered Nolan through his work on the project.
[00:03:26] Nolan talks about his blog post form 2017 titled, “What it feels like to be an open source maintainer,” which reflected on the emotional toll and burnout he experienced for maintaining PouchDB.
[00:05:33] Justin reflects on the impact of Nolan’s blog post, describing it as a “shot heard around the world” in the open source community.
[00:06:48] Eric asks why Nolan and other maintainers stay involved in open source despite the challenges. Nolan explains that reputational benefits and personal interest in the technology were initial motivators for staying involved.
[00:10:27] Eric asks Nolan how he realized it was time to step away from maintaining PouchDB. Nolan shares that personal life changes helped him reassess his involvement in open source and reflects on advice he received from other maintainers.
[00:14:36] Richard emphasizes the personal and emotional investment many maintainers have in their projects and Nolan acknowledges the privilege of being able to work on open source, but also the challenges it poses for maintainers who feel they cannot leave.
[00:21:13] Nolan shares stepping away from PouchDB has improved his mental health and personal relationships and he maintains smaller open source projects.
[00:24:00] Nolan explains the importance of being personally invested in a project and realizing when it’s time to move on and Justin reflects on his own experience of stepping away from maintaining a project after years of involvement.
[00:26:00] Eric asks if funding could have made a difference for Nolan’s involvement in open source, and Nolan shares that he avoided funding, preferring to keep his work as a “labor of love.”
[00:26:52] What is Nolan currently doing? He talks about maintaining a Mastodon client and focusing on personal projects that bring him joy.
[00:30:00] Richard discusses the importance of balancing open source work with personal life and the need for a sustainable approach to maintaining projects.
[00:30:46] Eric highlights the vulnerability and self-awareness Nolan has shown in discussing his open source journey, thanking him for sharing his experiences.
[00:33:13] Find out where you can follow Nolan on the internet.
Spotlight- [00:33:41] Justin’s spotlight is Metabase.
- [00:34:16] Eric’s spotlight is Parametric.
- [00:35:08] Richard’s spotlight is IPFS.
- [00:35:22] Nolan’s spotlight is fake-indexeddb.
Previous Episode
Episode 251: Gina Häußge of OctoPrint on Crowd-funding OSS
Guest
Gina Häußge
PanelistRichard Littauer
Show NotesIn this episode of Sustain, Richard chats with guest Gina Häußge, the creator and maintainer of OctoPrint, a web interface for 3D printers. Gina shares her journey in open-source development, discussing how she transitioned to working full-time on OctoPrint through crowdfunding. She talks about managing burnout, maintaining a healthy community, and the complexities of balancing development with user demands. Gina also explains the importance of API stability for plugin developers and her approach to keeping the project sustainable. The episode highlights Gina's creative solutions, such as the introduction of an achievement system to engage users and encourage project support. Press download now to hear more!
[00:01:38] Gina shares how she combats the stress and emotional toll of dealing with entitled users by using a heavy bag and playing the “DOOM” soundtrack.
[00:03:24] Gina explains OctoPrint and all its features.
[00:06:00] Richard inquires about Gina’s approach to governance and how she maintains a healthy community while preventing burnout. Gina explains her gut feeling-driven approach to building the project and how it turned into a larger community.
[00:08:51] Gina talks about how she transitioned to a four-day work week to protect her mental and physical health, and how it improved her productivity and well-being.
[00:10:34] There’s a discussion about the importance of API stability for OctoPrint’s plugin developers, and Gina explains her efforts to maintain backward compatibility and avoid breaking plugins with every new release.
[00:14:34] Richard asks how Gina manages community communication with forums, Discord, and other tools. She mentions the importance of searchable forums for documentation over real-time communication platforms like Discord.
[00:16:58] A conversation comes up on the “third-party licenses” file on OctoPrint’s GitHub, and Gina explains it’s to ensure proper credit and transparency.
[00:18:45] Gina discusses how some early architectural decisions for OctoPrint were based on gut feeling and she talks about the complexity of modernizing the UI due to the large plugin ecosystem and technical debt.
[00:23:21] Gina shares her discomfort with self-promotion but explains how essential crowdfunding is to keep OctoPrint alive, and she highlights a post she wrote about financial concerns and how it led to a significant increase in support.
[00:27:09] Gina shares how she introduced a fun achievement system into OctoPrint to engage users and gently remind them about supporting the project.
[00:29:50] Find out where you can follow Gina and OctoPrint online.
Quotes[00:18:58] Why this Thirdpartylicense.md file: “It felt like the right thing to do.”
[00:19:29] When did your gut feeling fail: “Architectural decisions throughout the lifespan of OctoPrint when I didn’t know anything better.”
[00:20:42] “A plugin system like OctoPrint is both a feature and a curse.”
[00:23:54] “I hate being in the spotlight, I hate marketing myself, but I do love doing this work.”
[00:24:17] “I feel like I’m actually making a difference and if I want to keep doing that, then I need funding.”
Spotlight- [00:30:45] Richard’s spotlight is Eric Berry, an excellent human.
- [00:31:05] Gina’s spotlight is the Advanced Bash-Scripting Guide.
- SustainOSS
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- SustainOSS Discourse
- SustainOSS Mastodon
- Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)
- Richard Littauer Socials
- Gina Häußge LinkedIn
- Gina Häußge Website
- OctoPrint
- OctoPrint GitHub
- OctoPrint Third Party Licenses GitHub
- Eric Berry X
- Advanced Bash-Scripting Guide by Mendel Cooper
- Produced by Richard Li...
Next Episode
Episode 253: Juan Pablo Alperin and John Willinsky on the Public Knowledge Project and Open Journal Systems
Guest
Juan Pablo Alperin | John Willinsky
PanelistRichard Littauer
Show NotesIn this episode of Sustain, host Richard discusses the importance of maintaining open access to research with guests Juan Pablo Alperin and John Willinsky from the Public Knowledge Project (PKP). The conversation covers PKP’s history, the development of their open-source software, Open Journal Systems (OJS), and its impact on scholarly publishing. They dive into the integration with other open-access initiatives, the role of AI in future projects, and the challenges faced in balancing sustainability with the rising demands of their growing user base. The episode also touches on community-driven translations and the importance of creating equitable access to knowledge, especially for communities in the global south. Download this episode now!
[00:01:20] John explains PKP’s commitment to open access, starting in 1998 with the goal of making research publicly available.
[00:02:35] Juan describes Open Journal Systems (OJS) as the flagship open source software of PKP, which facilitates research publication worldwide.
[00:04:57] The conversation touches on the peer review process, the importance of making scholarly knowledge open, and how PKP encourages open access through their platform.
[00:07:44] John and Juan explain how OJS allows academics and institutions to manage the entire publishing process, from submission to peer review and publication, while maintaining the integrity of research.
[00:11:54] John discusses the intersection of open source and open access, noting the successes and challenges that remain in the fight for free and equitable access to research.
[00:13:52] Richard inquires about where the funding is coming from, and Juan explains.
[00:16:49] The guests highlight how commercial publishers have embraced open access, though often in ways that perpetuate inequalities, such as through article processing charges (APCs).
[00:21:09] The discussion touches on sustainability, both in terms of funding PKP and the broader scholarly ecosystem, and the risks of commercializing access to knowledge.
[00:25:23] Translation and localization efforts are discussed and how PKP’s platform supports multiple languages, enabling access to knowledge across diverse linguistic communities.
[00:31:42] The challenges of integrating non-Western and indigenous knowledge systems into scholarly publishing is discussed.
[00:35:57] Juan and John share the hurdles PKP faces in terms of keeping up with community demand and ensuring long-term sustainability.
[00:39:41] Find out where you can learn more about the projects online.
Quotes[00:12:20] “This was going to be Rhetware, that is, it was rhetorical.”
[00:13:07] “Open access is close to 50% of the research in the world that’s published this year will be freely available to the public and researchers everywhere.”
[00:14:55] “An important part of our sustainability is that we provide hosting services for the software.”
[00:36:40] "As the community has grown, so have the demands and expectations of the project.”
Spotlight- [00:41:07] Richard’s spotlight is Kawawachikamach, Quebec,
- [00:41:54] Juan Pablo’s spotlight is the project, pandas.
- [00:42:31] John’s spotlight is Mattermost.
- SustainOSS
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- SustainOSS Discourse
- SustainOSS Mastodon
- Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)
- Richard Littauer Socials
- John Willinsky LinkedIn
- Juan Pablo Alperin Mastodon
- Public Knowledge Project (PKP)
- Public Knowledge Project (PKP) Community Forum
- Public Knowledge Project (PKP) GitHub
- Open Journal Systems (OJS)
- Kawawachikamach, Quebec
- pandas
- Mattermost
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