111: Decision Science with Nika Kabiri

01/12/22 • 38 min

This week, I cannot wait to introduce you to Nika Kabiri, a decision science specialist who helps people get real, move forward, and minimize regret. She has spent over two decades studying how people make decisions in various contexts, from business to politics to relationships. She's also been featured in Fast Company, Yahoo News, and as a top 10 coach in LA Weekly. Nika contributes to media sources like The Hill, Huffington Post, and Inside Sources, and she's regularly featured on podcasts, radio, and TV. She is also co-author of the bestselling book Money off the Table: Decision Science and the Secret to Smarter Investing, and is currently a faculty member at the University of Washington, where she teaches Decision Science. As the founder and owner of Kabiri Consulting, Nika employs decision science principles to help businesses start, grow, and thrive. She has a Ph.D. in sociology from the University of Washington, where her academic focus was on choice theory, institutional analysis, and decision making with constraint, and she also has a JD from the University of Texas. I'm telling you, this lady knows her stuff!

Nika starts by talking about how she got to where she is today, not only professionally but personally as well, including dealing with depression in her 20s, her experience with therapy and pharmaceuticals, how she resolved to own her choices, and the first decisions she made after coming to this realization. She also discusses her struggle with decision-making as a child, her experience in law school and in the legal profession, the moment when she realized law was not for her, and offers some wisdom on what to do in today's environment with the overload of advice and information from social media and influencers. She explains what she teaches in Decision Science at the university, elaborates on her book Money off the Table: Decision Science and the Secret to Smarter Investing and touches on other books she has in the works. She ends by discussing how a poor decision impacts your next big decision, approaching bad decisions as experiments, and the most painful decision she had to make. A true leader in her field with a wealth of personal experience to draw upon as well, Nika Kabiri has so much valuable knowledge to share – don't miss this golden opportunity to soak up the wisdom she is offering us all here today.

And, as always, if there is ever a topic you would like me to discuss, a guest you'd like me to interview on the podcast, or feedback you wish to offer, please feel free to contact me at [email protected] - I would love to hear from you!

The Finer Details of This Episode:

Nika Kabiri's professional story through graduate school and early career
Her personal story of dealing with depression and her experience with therapy
Her resolve to make and own her own choices
Decisions you make before you make your decisions
Nika's decision to quit her meds and substitute them with rigorous exercise
Dealing with insomnia
The consequence of micro-decisions you make every day
The importance of your physical health in decision making
Nika's experience with law school and the legal profession
Nika's struggle with decision-making as a child
What to do with the overload of advice and information today from influencers and social media
What decision science is all about
Removing emotions as the sole factor that drives your choices
Highlights from Money off the Table: Decision Science and the Secret to Smarter Investing, and another upcoming book
The notion of anticipated regret and how a wrong decision impacts your next big decision

Quotes

"Make some choices, like, own your choices. Don't let the therapist make your choices for you. Don't let your psychiatrist make your choices for you. Don't let people around you do that for you. Let them inform your choices, but own your life."

“To make really good decisions, you have to be well-rested, you have to eat well—you can't be hungry—you have to have very little stress. So there have to be these certain kinds of physiological, physical conditions that maximize your chances of not being impulsive, not taking risks, and all of that.”

"It's like micro-decisions that you have every day that, if you make them the wrong way, it doesn't seem like a big deal, but you suddenly start to slide into this bad place."

"Your physical health is so important in decision making so don't underestimate that."

"Everything that is not going to work for you is more likely to happen when you are sleep-deprived, nutrition-deprived, exercise-deprived."

"There's a terrible price you pay when you're not making your own choices, and you're doing what other people want you to do."

"At some point, it was less about being a lawyer...

The Finer Details of This Episode:

Nika Kabiri's professional story through graduate school and early career
Her personal story of dealing with depression and her experience with therapy
Her resolve to make and own her own choices
Decisions you make before you make your decisions
Nika's decision to quit her meds and substitute them with rigorous exercise
Dealing with insomnia
The consequence of micro-decisions you make every day
The importance of your physical health in decision making
Nika's experience with law school and the legal profession
Nika's struggle with decision-making as a child
What to do with the overload of advice and information today from influencers and social media
What decision science is all about
Removing emotions as the sole factor that drives your choices
Highlights from Money off the Table: Decision Science and the Secret to Smarter Investing, and another upcoming book
The notion of anticipated regret and how a wrong decision impacts your next big decision

Quotes

"It's like micro-decisions that you have every day that, if you make them the wrong way, it doesn't seem like a big deal, but you suddenly start to slide into this bad place."

"Your physical health is so important in decision making so don't underestimate that."

"Everything that is not going to work for you is more likely to happen when you are sleep-deprived, nutrition-deprived, exercise-deprived."

"There's a terrible price you pay when you're not making your own choices, and you're doing what other people want you to do."

"At some point, it was less about being a lawyer...

Previous Episode

110: You are the Expert of Your Body with Amy Denson

With me today is Amy Denson, a retired professional athlete who played collegiate basketball at Arizona State for four years and made it to the Sweet 16, a historic achievement for their program. She has lived the dream of any aspiring female basketballer: playing professionally overseas for eight years in Puerto Rico, Poland, Romania, Australia for three years, and Spain. In today's episode, she shares life experiences and advice regarding careers and their associated stresses. Amy is now certified as a nutritional therapy practitioner and is on a mission to ensure that no other woman ever feels dismissed, especially since they are the experts of their body.

Amy begins by discussing her journey with details from her basketball career, like her travel adventures, being a basketball coach, and then a nine-to-five job. She talks about her retirement and the stress she faced in adjusting to the typical profession, staying in the same place for long without traveling, and dealing with a toxic work environment. Amy shares how she was a people pleaser, and did not speak her truth or stand up for herself, which brought a lot of stress and negatively impacted her health. She discusses her first real job at 33 years old, then getting into 50-plus hour weeks, which culminated in Hashimoto's thyroiditis, an autoimmune disease that led to balding. Although Amy was told by the doctors that there was nothing she could do, she did not buy into this report. Instead, she sought better appropriate support and alleviated her agony. In essence, she encourages women facing similar ordeals to listen to their body and gut, and seek adequate, proper support from those who actually listen – a powerful lesson for us all from a one incredibly powerful woman.

As always, if there is ever a topic you would like me to discuss, a guest you'd like me to interview on the podcast, or feedback you wish to offer, please feel free to contact me at [email protected] - I would love to hear from you!

The Finer Details of This Episode:

Amy Denson's journey and career progression
How she dealt with a toxic work environment and stress
Amy's transition from being a bigtime basketballer to a nine-to-five job at 33 years of age
Her ordeal with Hashimoto's thyroiditis
Her struggle with identity
Amy’s role as a certified nutritional therapy practitioner, her nutrition business, and her mission
Details of her travel adventures and places she's lived
How Amy describes herself
Transitioning from professional athlete to working a typical job
The need to know your values
Keeping your mind open to opportunity
Amy's rock bottom and ‘enough-is-enough’ point
A vital takeaway from today’s interview
How the health and diet industry has misled our society
Actions to take when you suspect something is off
Stress management and sleep
PACK coaching – Purpose, Accountability, Consistency, and Knowledge
Amy's upcoming podcast, The Chronic Athlete

Quotes

"I retired and was just really trying to find my way. I was trying to find my identity because I really wasn't sure who I was without the label of a professional athlete after I introduced myself. And so the transition of living out of a suitcase for eight years by myself to coming back to a relationship and having to live in a house for more than eight months was a lot of stress."

"Even though I wasn't in the most ideal situation, I had to take responsibility for it. I did not speak my truth. I stayed too long. I did not stand up for myself when I should have been. And so I ended up quitting that job."

"Then I got into the 50-plus hour weeks. I was so tired. I would just live 'til Friday so I could rest 'til Monday."

"And I said, ‘I don't feel like myself, I don't recognize myself. This cannot be how the rest of my life and our life will be. Like aging, this cannot be aging.’"

"I was just certified as a nutritional therapy practitioner. And now I'm on a mission for no other woman to ever feel dismissed when you are the expert of your body.”

"I was 12 years old. And I wrote, 'I'm going to get a scholarship, and I'm going to play in college.' Then I wrote, 'I'm going to be in the WNBA.' I just found that like last summer, I was A) so impressed with my handwriting, and B) it's been in me since I was young. I grew up in a small town. And I've always known for some reason I was never meant to stay there. I was meant to explore."

"I wish I would have leaned into being called the B-word. I would have just leaned in and embraced that. I was a badass on the court, and that's something to be proud of."

"Even in the coaching business that I do now, mentorship is so powerful.”

"I was always hesitant at first. I alw...

Next Episode

112: Five Ways to Handle Rejection

We are currently in a five-day ‘pause’ here in Las Vegas due to COVID, but I'm super stoked to be back, and I really hope that you are doing well. Today's I want to talk to you all about rejection - a topic that comes up a lot in my coaching. When we are pursuing big goals, some stuff might just not happen for us, so rejection is a natural part of the process and it's essential to handle it well. It's so important to realize that rejection is something that happens to everybody, so let's dig into it together today.

I start by discussing how people react towards rejection, why some come back stronger, grow, and become better while others suffer from it, and how you should never let rejection hold you back. We'll look at how dealing with rejection in unhealthy ways can negatively impact your personal relationships and even lead to depression and anxiety. I also touch upon the reason why rejection stings, and convey encouragement that it can build character in the long run. We finish up by reviewing the five ways to move through rejection, as well as the importance of mantras and affirming messages.

The Finer Details of This Episode:

Why some people grow with rejection while others suffer
The evolutionary reason behind the hurt from rejection
How attachment styles affect how you respond to rejection
How people grow stronger with rejection
There are no good and bad emotions
Ways to deal with rejection that can help you come out stronger
The importance of mantras and affirming messages

Quotes

"Rejection is a real part of the process, and it's important to feel prepared for it and to know that it happens to everybody in all forms and in every area of our life."

"When you let rejection hold you back, it can really wreak havoc on a lot of aspects of your personal life."

"Dealing with rejection in unhealthy ways can negatively impact your personal relationships, and it can lead to depression and anxiety."

"Nobody likes to hear this, but the experience of being rejected can actually help in the long run to become more resilient in our life."

"When somebody rejects us, there's a very primal piece to it. It goes against everything that we feel like we need for survival."

"We have to have confidence in our ability to deal with uncomfortable emotions head-on. And it's essential to cope with this type of discomfort or any discomfort in a healthy way."

"Research tells us that if we allow the emotion, if we acknowledge it, name it, allow it to hang out with us for 90 seconds, it begins to diminish. It goes away."

"If you never get rejected, you're probably living very far inside your comfort zone. So we can't be sure we're pushing ourselves to our limits until we get turned down every now and then."

"To move through rejection and come out stronger on the other end, we have to treat ourselves with compassion and self-care. We need to respond to that negative self-talk - that inner bitch - with gentler, kinder, neutral messages."

"We can't make generalizations about ourselves when we get rejected."

"One specific incident cannot define us. One thing, two things can't define us. What they do, though, is they build us. They allow us to grow. It builds character."

"We can't let our worthiness depend on other people's opinions of us and one event define who we are. Just because someone else determines something about you or doesn't accept you or denies you as part of something, it doesn't mean it's true about you."

"If somebody in your life is experiencing rejection, please don't respond to them in the moment with something logical. Not going to help. Later, when they've moved through the emotions, and then they're into that processing place, then you can talk logically."

"Every single successful person has experienced rejection multiple times."

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Kelly's homepage - www.kellytravis.net

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