Outcome Studio Podcast - Marketing & B2B Technology Talk - 012: Demand Thinking - Good User Experience is Emotional and Social with Joel Smith, Joshua Mitchell, and Sundaresh Ramanathan

012: Demand Thinking - Good User Experience is Emotional and Social with Joel Smith, Joshua Mitchell, and Sundaresh Ramanathan

11/28/18 • 66 min

Outcome Studio Podcast - Marketing & B2B Technology Talk

Demand thinking in user experience is beyond a function. It's emotional and social.

Show highlights:

02:40 - Sundaresh shares a story about app development designed in "engineering brain" versus "user centric brain"
05:30 - Joshua Mitchell talking about his background in User Experience versus just making "a prettier internet" (in the words of Joel Smith)
07:30 - Joel Smith origin story, got his start by creating a small web hosting company, and moved to marketing side
11:00 - The state of apps and websites in late 1990s and 2000s. "Pretty internet" talking about Flash, adding images and graphics early on. Just adding elements because we could, not because it added value. The question of we have new tool, just applying it because it's cool (examples: blockchain, 3D printing, or virtual reality).
15:00 - Bad UX example, talking about introducing Lime and Bird scooters because they are cool but need legislation and rules, so how do we balance.
17:30 - Minimum viable product, bargain with user that the product may not be perfect, but also create vulnerability for companies
20:00 - Why was starting Design on Tap hard? Josh and Joel describe the evolution from waterfall to agile. Defining waterfall versus agile.
27:00 - Marketers, if you don't know what you want, don't pretend you do. But rather work with a partner that will help you discover what you need.
33:30 - Are marketers in tough spots in relinquishing control to agency? Marketers and agencies should work with the client to understand the problem, versus just fixing the problem.
35:30 - How can we be using data in product development and understanding a buyer's journey. Two considerations: market demand data, and usage data and how the product is experienced. Book by Alan Klement "When Coffee and Kale Compete" http://www.whencoffeeandkalecompete.com/
38:00 - Seeds of a movement called Demand Thinking - progress is the process of making change in a positive direction, and we hire and fire products to do that job. Clayton Christensen "The Innovators Dilemma" (https://www.wired.com/insights/2014/12/understanding-the-innovators-dilemma/). Design on Tap uses Heap Analytics, looks retroactively at the "digital exhaust" on existing state of product. Ryan Singer, Head of Product Strategy at Basecamp (https://www.feltpresence.com/)
43:00 - Buyer Insights, new service and research framework at Design on Tap to let design help companies create deeper meaning for customers along buyer journey. Why? Providing customers what they want before they even know they need it.
49:00 - 2 products, seeking to solve the exact same need with two very different solutions. Functional, emotional, and social components to the product manifestations. Modern customers are thinking, "I'll know a good product when I see it."
54:00 - Success story with Indy Chamber of Commerce, example of how to define outcomes but not sure how to get there, but a process to figure it out. Transforming website from something to just keep up-to-date to something that adds value. Shaping customer goals with the agency: SMART goals, learn or earn goals, and customer behavior focused current behavior and influence different. Came up with the goals AFTER the contract was signed
1:02:00- Closing remarks

Demand thinking in user experience is beyond a function. It's emotional and social.

Show highlights:

02:40 - Sundaresh shares a story about app development designed in "engineering brain" versus "user centric brain"
05:30 - Joshua Mitchell talking about his background in User Experience versus just making "a prettier internet" (in the words of Joel Smith)
07:30 - Joel Smith origin story, got his start by creating a small web hosting company, and moved to marketing side
11:00 - The state of apps and websites in late 1990s and 2000s. "Pretty internet" talking about Flash, adding images and graphics early on. Just adding elements because we could, not because it added value. The question of we have new tool, just applying it because it's cool (examples: blockchain, 3D printing, or virtual reality).
15:00 - Bad UX example, talking about introducing Lime and Bird scooters because they are cool but need legislation and rules, so how do we balance.
17:30 - Minimum viable product, bargain with user that the product may not be perfect, but also create vulnerability for companies
20:00 - Why was starting Design on Tap hard? Josh and Joel describe the evolution from waterfall to agile. Defining waterfall versus agile.
27:00 - Marketers, if you don't know what you want, don't pretend you do. But rather work with a partner that will help you discover what you need.
33:30 - Are marketers in tough spots in relinquishing control to agency? Marketers and agencies should work with the client to understand the problem, versus just fixing the problem.
35:30 - How can we be using data in product development and understanding a buyer's journey. Two considerations: market demand data, and usage data and how the product is experienced. Book by Alan Klement "When Coffee and Kale Compete" http://www.whencoffeeandkalecompete.com/
38:00 - Seeds of a movement called Demand Thinking - progress is the process of making change in a positive direction, and we hire and fire products to do that job. Clayton Christensen "The Innovators Dilemma" (https://www.wired.com/insights/2014/12/understanding-the-innovators-dilemma/). Design on Tap uses Heap Analytics, looks retroactively at the "digital exhaust" on existing state of product. Ryan Singer, Head of Product Strategy at Basecamp (https://www.feltpresence.com/)
43:00 - Buyer Insights, new service and research framework at Design on Tap to let design help companies create deeper meaning for customers along buyer journey. Why? Providing customers what they want before they even know they need it.
49:00 - 2 products, seeking to solve the exact same need with two very different solutions. Functional, emotional, and social components to the product manifestations. Modern customers are thinking, "I'll know a good product when I see it."
54:00 - Success story with Indy Chamber of Commerce, example of how to define outcomes but not sure how to get there, but a process to figure it out. Transforming website from something to just keep up-to-date to something that adds value. Shaping customer goals with the agency: SMART goals, learn or earn goals, and customer behavior focused current behavior and influence different. Came up with the goals AFTER the contract was signed
1:02:00- Closing remarks

Previous Episode

011: Why Sales Reps Need Personal Brands, Plus Challenging the Predictable Revenue Model with Jake Dunlap

Show highlights:

04:00 – Jake Dunlap CEO of Skaled meeting Gary Vaynerchuck and working with Vayner Media.
06:30 – Background sales and cold calling in 2003, working in Sports and HR to learn cold calling. Working in Sports and sales.
09:40 – Grown up sales process and machine at career builder, don’t do it your own way but rather follow process company gives. Do the best practices! Don’t get creative when you don’t have to.
13:15 – Executives having challenges with looking at new KPIs to match the new cadences and social selling aspects to building the “new sales org of the future”
15:30 – Book “Predictable Revenue” by Aaron Ross creating after affect of KPIs in Sales and Marketing. Amazing book for early 2000s (x-activities to x-leads equals x-revenue). We are still building our leading indicators based on “make more calls” and that world has changed. Channel agnostic is the play, not finding magic bullet.
21:45 – “Quantity, quality, and channels that you have to triangulate for your biz.” Data driven with right-sized activity, in newer channels.
23:00 – In B2B talking about Account Based Marketing most companies just have named accounts that we’re calling multiple people in, but it’s the sales and marketing alignment on content. Customized strategies to specific accounts. Hard to measure and predict, leaders snap back to calls.
27:45 – Sales folks at B2B companies building their personal brands. “Building your modern Rolodex, same as 20 years ago”, companies enabling sales team to build personal brands. Next 2-4 years, email will die due to filters. Then, people will spam on LinkedIn. Salesperson investing in building network now.
30:55 – LinkedIn profile workshop, best practices, narrow down buyer, get specific on problem you solve. Free, organic workshops. Buyers on LinkedIn. Next 2 years, every sales person will write to look like industry expert versus read as a resume.
36:00- Customer video testimonials tons of organic engagement. Customers talking about you, for you, versus shouting from your megaphone. Check out and Jorge Soto for affordable B2B customer video resource.
38:45 – Jake tells us what Skaled is, strategy, tactical support and tech implementation of marketing automation, sales automation and cadences, how to modernize. Where to find Jake Dunlap.

Next Episode

013: Alcohol, Accountability, and Authenticity - Discussing the Pressures to Drink for Young Sales Pros with Tucker Hood

Show highlights:

04:30 - Intro to Tucker Hood, Account Executive at Sigstr.
09:50 - Creating video for LinkedIn as a sales rep at the seat at Sigstr, both providing sales advice and sharing thoughts on personal development and leadership.
12:30 - Tucker sharing his battles with alcohol on LinkedIn, being 6 months sober.
16:30 - How Tucker handled social pressure to not drink, and what sources of inspiration/ mentors helped him quit alcohol
19:30 - Does publicly sharing problems with alcohol make it easier to manage? Sobriety enabling career progression.
22:40 - Recommendations for others struggling.
26:00 - Tucker's tips for success in sales.
31:45 - Social selling and what it means to us, ethical ways to do social selling.
34:30 - Companies enabling reps to do personal branding with video or written form, outside their companies.
40:30 - Be nice to each other, and stay positive.
41:30 - Closing remarks about if you're in a bad place how to ask for help, where to find Tucker.