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[UNLOCKED] How the North Plunders the South w/ Jason Hickel
Explicit content warning
06/13/24 • 56 min
1 Listener
The imperial core—which is comprised of settler-colonial states like those in Western Europe, as well as states like the United States, Canada and Australia—have been stealing the resources and labor of the Global South—or the periphery—for centuries. It started with the direct colonial violence and resource exploitation that marked much of the last few centuries, but it didn’t end there.
Neo-colonialism—a term that you’re probably familiar with—is broadly defined as the use of economic, political, cultural, or other pressures to control or influence other countries, especially former colonies. But what does it actually look like in practice? How is the imperial core still plundering and pillaging the periphery? The practice of widespread crude, cruel, brute force that marked direct colonialism may not exist in the same exact form as it once did—but the outcome is still the same: mass extraction and exploitation from the Global South which has resulted in a staggering net transfer of resources, wealth, and labor to the Global North.
In this episode, we’re going to discuss the mechanisms and extent of neocolonial extraction and exploitation as they manifest today, and we’ve brought on the perfect guest to walk us through it.
Jason Hickel is a professor at the The Institute for Environmental Science and Technology at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, the author of the books The Divide: A Brief Guide to Global Inequality and its Solutions and Less is More: How Degrowth will Save the World, and the the lead author of two papers that we’ll be focusing on today: “Imperialist appropriation in the world economy: Drain from the global South through unequal exchange, 1990–2015” published in journal Global Environmental Change, and "Unequal exchange of labour in the world economy" forthcoming in the journal Nature Communications.
In this conversion we explore the theory of uneven exchange and how it sheds light on neocolonialism in practice, we discuss some of the key findings from Jason’s research on imperialist appropriation in the world economy, we dispel some of the myths perpetuated by those claiming that capitalism has lifted “millions out of poverty,” we talk about what a just degrowth transition of the global economy would look like and, crucially, how we might achieve it.
Further resources:
- Jason Hickel
- “Imperialist appropriation in the world economy: Drain from the global South through unequal exchange, 1990–2015” published in journal Global Environmental Change
Related Episodes:
- Upstream: The Divide – Global Inequality from Conquest to Free Markets with Jason Hickel
- Upstream: International Development and Post-capitalism with Jason Hickel
- Upstream: How Degrowth Will Save the World with Jason Hickel
- Upstream: The Green Transition Pt.1 – The Problem with Green Capitalism
Thank you to Berwyn Mure for the covert art.
Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support
If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship
For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter,
The imperial core—which is comprised of settler-colonial states like those in Western Europe, as well as states like the United States, Canada and Australia—have been stealing the resources and labor of the Global South—or the periphery—for centuries. It started with the direct colonial violence and resource exploitation that marked much of the last few centuries, but it didn’t end there.
Neo-colonialism—a term that you’re probably familiar with—is broadly defined as the use of economic, political, cultural, or other pressures to control or influence other countries, especially former colonies. But what does it actually look like in practice? How is the imperial core still plundering and pillaging the periphery? The practice of widespread crude, cruel, brute force that marked direct colonialism may not exist in the same exact form as it once did—but the outcome is still the same: mass extraction and exploitation from the Global South which has resulted in a staggering net transfer of resources, wealth, and labor to the Global North.
In this episode, we’re going to discuss the mechanisms and extent of neocolonial extraction and exploitation as they manifest today, and we’ve brought on the perfect guest to walk us through it.
Jason Hickel is a professor at the The Institute for Environmental Science and Technology at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, the author of the books The Divide: A Brief Guide to Global Inequality and its Solutions and Less is More: How Degrowth will Save the World, and the the lead author of two papers that we’ll be focusing on today: “Imperialist appropriation in the world economy: Drain from the global South through unequal exchange, 1990–2015” published in journal Global Environmental Change, and "Unequal exchange of labour in the world economy" forthcoming in the journal Nature Communications.
In this conversion we explore the theory of uneven exchange and how it sheds light on neocolonialism in practice, we discuss some of the key findings from Jason’s research on imperialist appropriation in the world economy, we dispel some of the myths perpetuated by those claiming that capitalism has lifted “millions out of poverty,” we talk about what a just degrowth transition of the global economy would look like and, crucially, how we might achieve it.
Further resources:
- Jason Hickel
- “Imperialist appropriation in the world economy: Drain from the global South through unequal exchange, 1990–2015” published in journal Global Environmental Change
Related Episodes:
- Upstream: The Divide – Global Inequality from Conquest to Free Markets with Jason Hickel
- Upstream: International Development and Post-capitalism with Jason Hickel
- Upstream: How Degrowth Will Save the World with Jason Hickel
- Upstream: The Green Transition Pt.1 – The Problem with Green Capitalism
Thank you to Berwyn Mure for the covert art.
Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support
If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship
For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter,
Previous Episode
![undefined - [TEASER] Suburban Hell and Ugly Cities](https://storage.googleapis.com/goodpods-images-bucket/episode_images/b061c77c1798a993be709aaa88f714ca0c28e00850dba50574a7350d926992b4.avif)
[TEASER] Suburban Hell and Ugly Cities
You can listen to the full episode "Suburban Hell and Ugly Cities" by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast
As a Patreon subscriber, not only will you get access to at least one bonus episode a month, usually two or three, as well as early access to certain episodes and other benefits like stickers and bumper stickers, depending on which tier you subscribe to, but you’ll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going. Find out more at Patreon.com/upstreampodcast or at upstreampodcast.org/support. Thank you.
Why is even just driving through suburbia soul crushing? Why are so many cities and towns in the United States so...ugly? All of us here would probably agree that car-centric city planning and corporate development are huge factors to consider when asking these questions. But what exactly about this type of planning and development is it that feels so oppressive? What exactly is it about that strip mall that makes your heart sink? What exactly is it about that suburban lawn that makes you feel so uncannily uncomfortable? These are some of the questions that we explore in this Patreon episode.
In this episode Robert reads and comments on two separate but related pieces: Why even driving through suburbia is soul crushing, by Alex Balashov and Compromise, Hell! by Wendell Berry. These pieces explore the anti-social, barren, and soul-crushing aspects of how we, under late-stage capitalism here in the United States, design the spaces we travel through and live in. From freeway interchanges that jut out like decaying exo-skeletons, to the barren eight-late expressways that cut neighborhoods in half, to the giant lawns, fake porches, and kitschy columns that ornament many suburban homes—this reading not only calls out these monstrosities but explains what they do to us on a psychological, nervous system, and social level.
Further resources:
- Why Even Driving Through Suburbia is Soul Crushing, by Alex Balashov
- Compromise, Hell! by Wendell Berry
- 27:10: Images 1 & 2
- McMansion Hell
Related episodes:
- Upstream: Everyday Utopia and Radical Imagination with Kristen Ghodsee
- Upstream: Capitalist Realism with Carlee Gomes
- Upstream: Dialectical Materialism w/ Josh Sykes
- Grassroots Urban Placemaking with Mark Lakeman
Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support
If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at upstreampodcast.org/sponsorship
For more from Upstream, visit www.upstreampodcast.org and follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Bluesky. You can also subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.
Next Episode

Palestine Pt. 10: Healing from Zionism w/ Meital Yaniv
"What Israel is doing right now has nothing to do with antisemitism. What Israel is doing right now is a genocide. What Israel has been doing for the past 75 years is apartheid, is occupation. There is no need for any one of us to serve in the IDF. The IDF should not exist. The state of Israel should not exist." These are the words of a former Israeli soldier turned anti-Zionist organizer: Meital Yaniv.
Meital describes themself as a “death laborer tending to a prayer for the liberation of the land of Palestine” and has recently written the book Bloodlines which traces their paternal lineage being survivors of the Holocaust and subsequently migrating to Palestine. From there, Meital traces their lineage through indoctrination into Zionism and as settler-colonists, and defenders of the so-called “state of Israel.” Meital then describes their refusal to serve in the IDF and their subsequent departure from Israel and development into a death doula for Zionism and Israel.
In this conversation with Meital, we hear about what it’s like to be raised “extremely Zionistic” and to serve in the IDF. We learn about the consequences of trauma that is passed down intergenerationally and what is necessary to truly heal individually and collectively. We explore how to talk to people who defend Zionism and the state of Israel and what the tradition of Judaism would say about Zionism and the genocide of the Palestinian people. And finally, Meital offers invitations for how we can all contribute to bringing the state of Israel to an end for the liberation of Palestine.
And finally, Meital offers invitations for how we can all contribute to bringing the state of Israel to compassionate just death for the liberation of Palestine.
Further resources:
Related episodes:
- Upstream: Palestine Pt. 1: A Socialist Introduction with Sumaya Awad
- Upstream: Palestine Pt. 2: Justice for Some with Noura Erakat
- Upstream: Palestine Pt. 3: Settler-Colonialism and Medical Apartheid with Rupa Marya & Jess Ghannam
- Upstream: Palestine Pt. 4: False Solutions and Paths of Resistance with Sumaya Awad
- Upstream: Palestine Pt. 5: The Political Economy of Palestine with Adam Hanieh
- Upstream: Palestine Pt. 6: One State with Ghada Karmi
- Upstream: Palestine Pt. 7: Direct Action w/ Max Geller of Palestine Action
- Upstream: Palestine Pt. 8: Indigeneity and Settler-Colonialism w/ Krystal Two Bulls & Sumaya Awad
- Upstream: Palestine Pt. 9: Palestine 2031 w/ Nadia Zanghari
- Donate to Middle Eastern Children's Alliance (MECA)
- Anera: Provide urgent humanitarian aid to Palestinians
- Gaza Mutual Aid
Intermission music: “Arvoles Yoran Por Luvias (Trees Cry For Rain)” performed by Gloria Levy
Upstream is a labor of love — we couldn't keep this project going without the generosity of our listeners and fans. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/upstreampodcast or please consider chipping in a one-time or recurring donation at www.upstreampodcast.org/support
If your organization wants to sponsor one of our upcoming documentaries, we have a number of sponsorship packages available. Find out more at
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