380: Matthew Stevenson, part 1: Why Befriend a White Nationalist?

09/02/20 • 55 min

Matthew is friends with the guy who built the white nationalist online community, Stormfront. He is also an observant orthodox Jew. You may have heard about him because the pair made headlines and appeared on the Daily Show and shows like that.

Matthew and Derek Black made headlines because Matthew invited Derek to Shabat dinner in college. They became friends. Derek eventually disavowed his earlier beliefs, in large part because of their friendship.

In our conversation, Matthew shares his side of the story. Most interviews featured Derek, which will get more ratings, but I find Matthew's initiative in leading by engaging more inspiring, especially for those of us not raised as white nationalists. I compare how the mainstream approaches people they disagree with---"punch a Nazi" or saying the others don't care---with Matthew's approach. I don't think people realize Matthew's effectiveness.

I could try to describe it, but Matthew has lived it, in particular in a situation with as diametrically opposed views you can imagine. Rarely do I find myself speechless to add to what the guest said. All I can say is I learned more than I expected and I expected to learn a lot.

I expect to listen to this episode many times over the years. I'll keep in touch with Matthew too and bring him back. What I'm trying to work on in leading people I disagree with, he's done for longer with more personal at stake.

Matthew on the On Being podcast

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Matthew on the On Being podcast

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Previous Episode

379: Dan McPherson, part 1: A Heart Attack Last Week at Age 46

Do you have friends that you talk to once or twice a month---someone you can talk about important things beyond the day to day? Dan is one of those friends for me. The week before recording this conversation he told me he had a massive heart attack. He's 46 years old. I was traveling and could only hear part of the story. What I heard made me reflect all week.

The pains, hospitals, and doctors were the exciting, if that's the right word, part. The parts about his son and his views on life got me in the gut. He's gone through life and death experiences before, so he could compare reflections and changes this time to others.

The part about the changes he's made since, mostly about diet, made me think about my environmental changes. I asked him if he was willing to share his experience with an audience challenging themselves to change. He said yes. The first two-thirds is a gripping account of a young man facing possibly the end of his life. Then comes the parts where he faces the rest of his life and especially his son.

I mentioned after stopping recording how I thought his humor would help people listen. He said, "How else can you treat it?"

Since he had faced life-and-death experiences before, he adjusted to live how he wants. That if he knew his life would end soon he wouldn't change anything, tells me any of us can do so now.

After recording he said he appreciated the chance to serve. I hope we learn his lesson without facing coin-toss chances of surviving.

Leaders Must Lead

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Next Episode

381: Kevin Edwards Cahill, part 1: The Deming Legacy

Kevin Cahill's grandfather, W. Edwards Deming, changed nations. An emperor awarded him a medal. If you don't know either, listen to the first few minutes when I describe him. Deming has become one of my top role models.

He transformed nations in a few years---the time scale that climate scientists say we have, not that climate is our only problem. He shows what one person can do---the opposite of what everyone who doesn't act justifies their inaction with: "What one person does doesn't matter."

W. Edwards Deming saw and acted on systems, what many people talk about but not many get. This episode will illuminate them and, I hope, give hope and direction for what we can do.