Refugees: why hard times need hard facts

08/21/17 • 19 min

In Episode 10 of Series 2 of The Rights Track Todd talks to Gonzalo Vargas Llosa, UNHCR’s Representative to the UK about refugees. We get some hard facts and statistics on numbers of refugees and where they’re from, discuss the role of the 1951 Refugee Convention, ask whether Angela Merkel’s open invitation to refugees was moral or misguided and whether the UK is playing its part in protecting those fleeing war, famine and persecution.

0.00- 5.30

Gonzalo provides some startling statistics on numbers of refugees (In 2016 65.6 million forcibly uprooted - more than 20 millions seeking safety across a border, 40 million uprooted but who stay within their country - 20 people displaced every minute of every day)
Majority of refugees 55% come today from just 3 countries: Syria, Afghanistan and South Sudan - Syria alone more than 5 million, South Sudan at highest rate
Focus in the media has been on the arrival of refugees in Europe, but important to remember that 85% are in developing countries like Turkey, Pakistan, Iran who host millions of refugees - most refugees by far stay in their region of origin

5.30-15.40

Gonzalo talks about the ‘secondary movement’ of refugees and explains that a significant drop in refugee funding to regions in the Middle East was a driver for refugees to leave and try to come to places like Europe. He says the emphasis needs to be on strengthening the aid to those developing countries so they can meet the minimum needs (water, food, health) of refugees in countries close to them and also provide them with new opportunities otherwise they will want to move.
People think the majority of refugees are simply fleeing poverty but that is not the case
Gonzalo explains how the rights of refugees are enshrined in the 1951 Refugee Convention and how important it is that countries which have signed up to the convention live top to their commitments because it is a legal obligation
Gonzalo rejects claims that the Convention should be revisited or scrapped, explaining it has helped save millions of lives. He believes the problem is not the convention itself, but the failure of certain Government to uphold their commitments
Todd asks Gonzalo for his thoughts on the German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s statement that all refugees were welcome and whether her statement was moral or misguided
Gonzalo says her statement showed great leadership and that the problem was that other leaders did not follow suit - not enough solidarity within Europe
Gonzalo believes there has been too much focus on stopping boats making the dangerous journey to Europe without thinking about the alternative and without providing the sort of aid that might help/encourage them to stay where they are

15.40-end

Some discussion about the UK position. Gonzalo describes UK as one of the most important donors of humanitarian aid in the world, giving substantial funding for example to help Syrian refugees in places like Jordan and Lebanon. It has also stepped up numbers of Syrian refugees that it will help resettle
Todd summarises some of the key points made by Gonzalo in the interview

0.00- 5.30

Gonzalo provides some startling statistics on numbers of refugees (In 2016 65.6 million forcibly uprooted - more than 20 millions seeking safety across a border, 40 million uprooted but who stay within their country - 20 people displaced every minute of every day)
Majority of refugees 55% come today from just 3 countries: Syria, Afghanistan and South Sudan - Syria alone more than 5 million, South Sudan at highest rate
Focus in the media has been on the arrival of refugees in Europe, but important to remember that 85% are in developing countries like Turkey, Pakistan, Iran who host millions of refugees - most refugees by far stay in their region of origin

5.30-15.40

Gonzalo talks about the ‘secondary movement’ of refugees and explains that a significant drop in refugee funding to regions in the Middle East was a driver for refugees to leave and try to come to places like Europe. He says the emphasis needs to be on strengthening the aid to those developing countries so they can meet the minimum needs (water, food, health) of refugees in countries close to them and also provide them with new opportunities otherwise they will want to move.
People think the majority of refugees are simply fleeing poverty but that is not the case
Gonzalo explains how the rights of refugees are enshrined in the 1951 Refugee Convention and how important it is that countries which have signed up to the convention live top to their commitments because it is a legal obligation
Gonzalo rejects claims that the Convention should be revisited or scrapped, explaining it has helped save millions of lives. He believes the problem is not the convention itself, but the failure of certain Government to uphold their commitments
Todd asks Gonzalo for his thoughts on the German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s statement that all refugees were welcome and whether her statement was moral or misguided
Gonzalo says her statement showed great leadership and that the problem was that other leaders did not follow suit - not enough solidarity within Europe
Gonzalo believes there has been too much focus on stopping boats making the dangerous journey to Europe without thinking about the alternative and without providing the sort of aid that might help/encourage them to stay where they are

15.40-end

Some discussion about the UK position. Gonzalo describes UK as one of the most important donors of humanitarian aid in the world, giving substantial funding for example to help Syrian refugees in places like Jordan and Lebanon. It has also stepped up numbers of Syrian refugees that it will help resettle
Todd summarises some of the key points made by Gonzalo in the interview

Previous Episode

Worker rights: a question of basic income?

In Episode 9 of Series 2 of The Rights Track, Evelyn Astor, Policy Officer at the International Trade Union Confederation in Brussels, talks about upholding the rights of workers around the world.

0.00-6.50

Evelyn starts by explaining what worker’s rights are. She mentions those rights laid out in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights by the United Nations, the International Covenant of Economic, Social and Cultural Rights and in International Labour Organisation conventions and recommendations and she goes on to outline examples.
How can these rights be measured in practice as well as in principle? The ITUC has developed a Global Rights Index to measure the degree to which worker rights are being respected.
Evelyn talks about some of the work she’s been doing in South Asia around minimum wages
Discussion around Global Rights Index, and what a basic minimum wage or a living wage looks like in practice and what the ITUC thinks the approach should be and how they campaign for change and raise international awareness.
Todd mentions and explains the Vernon Product Cycle and how that plays out and impacts on wages around the world.

06.50-11.00

Evelyn explains how multinational companies continue to seek out parts of the world where they can source cheap labour and effectively bypass worker rights. She mentions a report produced by the ITUC about the labour rights violations in the supply chains of the 50 largest multi-national companies.
Todd asks Evelyn about a recent report from Philip Alston, the UN special rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights who is making a case for a universal basic income
Evelyn goes on to explain the concept of a Basic Income and some of the ITUC’s reservations about it and its potential.
Todd mentions Uber as an example of a company that has been criticised for some of its employment practices
Evelyn agrees that the growing trend of what she describes as “bogus self employment” is part of the problem, but explains that there are many other practices around the hiring and firing of people that are of great concern to the ITUC including Governments which loosen labour market regulations and collective bargaining to try to attract businesses to their country.
Evelyn makes the point that the evidence shows that these approaches don’t necessarily help economic growth either

11.00-end

Evelyn talks about where ITUC works
Discussion of a recent trial in Finland in which a number of people have been given a basic income
Evelyn explains why the ITUC at this time is neither endorsing nor objecting to the idea of a Universal Basic Income - and why she would like to see further testing and evidence about its positive value and how it could be implemented effectively
How workers’ rights can help address increasing inequality

Next Episode

Picture this: using photography to make a case for environmental rights

In Episode 11 of Series 2 of The Rights Track Todd talks to the internationally acclaimed environmentalist photographer Garth Lenz about the idea of crimes against the environment and how his photography helps to make a case for environmental rights.

0.00-5.26

Garth talks about the power of photography in helping to change the way people think e.g. about injustice or war and how it can motivate people to demand change
He talks about why Canada where he is based is such a powerful example of “industrial sacrifice” because the sites are so vast and why photography is such a good medium for communicating that to a broad audience
Todd asks Garth about how he conveys the idea of vastness such as in his photos of industrialised landscape such as that at the Tar Sands Development
Garth talks about finding a point of reference such as equating the size of a single truck being used with the size of a family home and how doing this helps link what’s happening with the environment and human rights

5.26-12.55

Todd outlines the tensions around the human rights arguments i.e the right to economic development and prosperity and the need to explore sustainable development and also the more philosophical debates around where the environment sits in debates around human rights
Garth argues there is not a major tension between the needs of humans and the needs of the environment - he believes they both need a healthy ecosystem
Garth talks about a recent project around Houston and Port Arthur in the US where he says there are huge Fortune 500 companies juxtaposed with some of the highest rates of unemployment, poverty and poor health
Garth mentions recent work he has been undertaking for the Environmental Integrity Project in Pennsylvania looking at the human cost of fossil fuel development particularly where people have signed over rights to companies to extract fuels and then find, for example, that their water supply is contaminated - he feels that nothing changes until the privileged and rich are affected in the same way.
Todd picks up and describes the so-called “fracking process” which is what Garth has been talking about and Garth goes onto talk about some of the knock ons success as earthquakes in places where they don’t normally happen.
Garth goes on to mention recent wildfires in British Columbia and their impact on communities and individuals including his own asthmatic daughter - he says he could not imagine as a child a point in time when people would be scared to go out and breathe the air or drink the water without wanting to take action as a society

12.55-16.10

Discussion around some of the policy responses to environmental issues such as recent moves in France and the UK to ban the production of petrol and diesel vehicles and the shift towards hybrid vehicles
Todd raises the question of where the power will come from to fuel electric cars - he mentions plans to develop nuclear power in the UK
Garth believes the moves in Europe are encouraging and agrees the fuel will need to come from a wind range of sources - he says the US and even Canada are far behind
He argues that plugging electric vehicles into coal powered stations for recharging is better for the environment than driving petrol or diesel fuelled cars because of the major reduction in greenhouse gases even though he acknowledged it’s not ideal

16.10 -end

Discussion about President Trump’s preference not to be a signatory to the Paris Climate Change agreement and what motivates Garth to keep up his work
Garth points out that at a federal, state and local level people are saying that Washington may have a view but they will continue to make their own decisions and moves regardless and that this makes him feel more optimistic going forward
Todd urges Rights Track listeners to watch Garth’s emotional and gripping Ted Talk