Errol Morris and Jacob Soboroff: Trump's Immigration Policies Are Indefensible

12/11/24 • 49 min

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The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie

In late 2017, in the name of "zero tolerance," President Donald Trump introduced a policy of separating parents and children who crossed the Southern border and requested asylum in the United States. In all, an estimated 5,500 children were taken from their parents and many were held in detention facilities, some of which had been constructed by the Obama administration. Over 1,000 children are still unaccounted for by the federal government. The policy ended in 2018 after massive public outcry. The zero tolerance policy is the subject of Separated, a new documentary by Academy Award–winning filmmaker Errol Morris. It has aired on MSNBC and will be available for streaming on December 17.

Reason's Nick Gillespie talks with Morris and journalist Jacob Soboroff, whose book on the controversy inspired the film. They discuss how family separation became policy and whether it acted as a deterrent, America's long and ambivalent relationship with legal and illegal immigration, and what Trump's second term will mean for immigration policy.

0:00- Introduction

2:15- Trump's 'zero-tolerance' immigration policy

5:33- Jacob Soboroff's book

9:33- Who was really behind the child separation policy?

13:09- State-created orphans and the asylum process

15:04- Immigration policies through U.S. history

18:31- American attitudes towards immigration v implemented policies

21:21- Ad: ZBiotics

23:07- Anti-immigration rhetoric escalated during the 2024 election

29:15- 'Border Czar' Tom Homan

32:15- Stephen Miller, Elaine Duke & Kirsten Nielsen

37:35- Nielsen's replacement, Kristi Noem

39:42- The Dunning-Kruger administration?

40:57- Expertise vs. disruption

44:43- How to change attitudes toward immigration

Previous appearances:

"Errol Morris on Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, Theranos, and Cancel Culture," November 8, 2019
"Errol Morris on Donald Rumsfeld, The Unknown Known, and Evidence-Based Journalism," April 12, 2014

Today's sponsor:

ZBiotics. ZBiotics Pre-Alcohol Probiotic Drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by Ph.D. scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Make ZBiotics your first drink of the night, drink responsibly, and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Get 15 percent off by going to ZBiotics/TRI and using the code TRI at checkout.
Video Editor: Ian Keyser

The post Errol Morris and Jacob Soboroff: Trump's Immigration Policies Are Indefensible appeared first on Reason.com.

0:00- Introduction

2:15- Trump's 'zero-tolerance' immigration policy

5:33- Jacob Soboroff's book

9:33- Who was really behind the child separation policy?

13:09- State-created orphans and the asylum process

15:04- Immigration policies through U.S. history

18:31- American attitudes towards immigration v implemented policies

21:21- Ad: ZBiotics

23:07- Anti-immigration rhetoric escalated during the 2024 election

29:15- 'Border Czar' Tom Homan

32:15- Stephen Miller, Elaine Duke & Kirsten Nielsen

37:35- Nielsen's replacement, Kristi Noem

39:42- The Dunning-Kruger administration?

40:57- Expertise vs. disruption

44:43- How to change attitudes toward immigration

Previous appearances:

"Errol Morris on Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, Theranos, and Cancel Culture," November 8, 2019
"Errol Morris on Donald Rumsfeld, The Unknown Known, and Evidence-Based Journalism," April 12, 2014

Today's sponsor:

ZBiotics. ZBiotics Pre-Alcohol Probiotic Drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by Ph.D. scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Make ZBiotics your first drink of the night, drink responsibly, and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Get 15 percent off by going to ZBiotics/TRI and using the code TRI at checkout.
Video Editor: Ian Keyser

The post Errol Morris and Jacob Soboroff: Trump's Immigration Policies Are Indefensible appeared first on Reason.com.

Previous Episode

Brendan O'Neill: The West Went Insane After October 7

Reason's annual Webathon is underway. Please considering donating here.

Today's guest is Brendan O'Neill, chief political writer for Spiked and the author of the bracing new book, After the Pogrom: 7 October, Israel and the Crisis of Civilisation.

O'Neill and Reason's Nick Gillespie talk about the response in the United Kingdom and the United States to Hamas' attacks last year, Israel's ongoing military actions, and what's likely to come next in a postwoke world. "On October 7," says O'Neill, "the progressive left went from 'believe women' to 'believe fascists.' They took Hamas at its word over the testimonies of raped women."

They also discuss whether O'Neill's politics have changed over the years. At the start of his career a quarter-century ago, he was an unapologetic man of the left—a self-declared Trotskyist, in fact. But these days he seems to make more common cause with conservatives and libertarians. "My rallying cry remains the same," O'Neill insists. "Increase the power of man over nature and decrease the power of man over man."

0:00- Introduction

1:16- O'Neill's new book: "After The Pogrom"

5:48- Hamas is religious extremist movement

11:10- Islamism as extreme rejection of modernity

16:57- Is being anti-Zionist punk?

18:40- The 'cultural appropriation' of the Keffiyeh

21:17- Is Israel a white settler-colonialist state?

24:28- When did the left turn against Israel?

28:53- Is antisemitism connected to anti-capitalism?

32:30- The demonization of Israel

33:40- Palestine as the Omni-cause

35:34- The madness of Queers for Palestine

39:29- The catastrophe of post-Oct. 7 progressivism

43:34- Did Oct. 7 accelerate the collapse of wokeness?

46:40- How much should the west be supporting Israel's war effort?

51:28- O'Neill's political evolution

53:21- How gay liberation differed from the trans movement

58:22- Today's young activists seek institutional approval

1:00:50- How Marxism & Trotsky influenced O'Neill

1:04:14- Critics of Zionism in 1930s-40s Europe

Previous appearances:

"A Heretic's Manifesto: Spiked's leading polemicist defends J.K. Rowling, Brexit, and Enlightenment values of free speech and pluralism," June 21, 2023

"'The Real Threat to Free Speech Now Is Conformism and Cowardice': Spiked's Brendan O'Neill on free expression, environmentalism as 'an apology for poverty,' and why he is 'a Marxist libertarian,'" December 23, 2015

Video Editor: Ian Keyser

The post Brendan O'Neill: The West Went Insane After October 7 appeared first on Reason.com.

Next Episode

Penny Lane: Why I Gave a Kidney to a Total Stranger

Today's guest is Penny Lane, the acclaimed documentary filmmaker whose previous works include Listening to Kenny G and Hail Satan?, both of which formed the basis of previous Reason interviews linked in the show notes.

Her exceptional new film is Confessions of a Good Samaritan. It's currently streaming on Netflix and follows her experience as an "altruistic" kidney donor, or one who gives an organ away to an anonymous stranger. Reason's Nick Gillespie talks with Lane about how she came to make her decision; its effects on her body, mind, and finances; and the ethics of current policy, which prevents donors from being paid for giving away life-saving organs. "My instinct as more or less a libertarian is, yeah, pay people," Lane tells Reason. "It seems like a really obvious thing." But it's not a simple one, she explains, both because of current laws and medical history. They also talk about the state of documentary film making, if we're in a golden age for the genre, and whether audiences are becoming smarter consumers of media.

Previous appearances:

"Penny Lane: Can 75 Million Kenny G Fans Be Wrong?" December 1, 2021

"Hail Satan? A New Documentary Depicts Devil Worshipers as Unlikely Defenders of the First Amendment," April 26, 2019

00:00- Introduction

2:19- Penny Lane's altruistic kidney donation

4:21- Effective altruism's influence on Lane

6:12- Lane's obstacles before surgery

7:13- Recovering from surgery physically & psychologically

11:25- Parable of the Good Samaritan

15:43- Kidney donation policy

19:34- How financial incentives would change the equation

21:03- History of kidney transplants