EP 92: Tom Herbert (Part 1) — Eating More to Train Harder, Protein Synthesis, and Carbohydrate Timing
Explicit content warning
10/25/21 • 155 min
2 Listeners
Tom Herbert is known as the usefulcoach, and is a leader in climbing sports nutrition. We talked about common themes in clients he works with, his philosophy of getting climbers to eat more calories to support a higher training volume, muscle protein synthesis, carbohydrate recommendations and timing, food quality, leucine supplementation, and much more.
Support the Podcast:
We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:
- Bryan Fast (he's the first one!)
Become a Patron:
Show Notes:
thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/tom-herbert-part-1
Nuggets:
5:37 – The ambiance of Boulder, CO
6:41 – Tom’s night at an outdoor club
8:39 – The ClimbSci podcast (Tom’s old podcast project)
10:23 – How Tom’s nutrition approach has changed since the ClimbSci podcast days, and seeking critique on Reddit
12:30 – How I connected with Tom via Hazel Findlay, and my goal for this conversation
15:04 – Who is Tom Herbert (@usefulcoach), and getting climbers to eat more to get more out of life
19:45 – Common themes in the clients Tom works with
22:56 – How climbers tend to eat the least amount of food they can get away with, and the weight of food and water
27:36 – Book recommendations are not real life, and Tom’s experiment with a cycling diet of very high carb
30:56 – Michael Phelps, and Tom’s central message of eating more so we can do more training
38:34 – Weight vs. lean mass and body composition
44:53 – Gaining lean body mass while training
47:45 – Progress in your training plan as a prime metric
50:53 – My experience with being stronger and lean but “fluffy around the middle”, Tom’s experience working with physique athletes, and breaking down the ideals we have in our heads as climbers
55:47 – The disconnect between looking badass and being badass, and “we tend to want to look like we climb harder than we actually climb.”
58:35 – “Is this everything I can do with my body?”, “Am I doing everything I can do to be healthy?”, and excepting our bodies
1:01:33 – Fat loss is not a linear process
1:02:24 – Aidan Roberts’ DEXA scan, and the cost of dieting
1:06:34 – Accounting for different bodies looking different at the same body fat percentage, and the selection bias of naturally lean people in pro climbing
1:10:42 – Tracking absolute strength, and focusing on improving the quality and the volume of your training over time
1:14:57 – Staying the same weight at higher calories, and reaching a new homeostasis if you do increase weight
1:17:44 – My experience with gaining weight, finding a new homeostasis, and getting stronger than ever before
1:20:20 – Energy availability, and how many calories Tom has his athletes eat on a rest day and training day (using me as an example)
1:29:17 – Protein, muscle-protein synthesis, and eating protein 4-5 times per day
1:37:57 – Tom’s thoughts on my daily protein intake
1:40:29 – Waving carb amounts, and Tom’s recommendations for me for daily carbs
1:44:21 – Saturating the climbing/training session with glucose, and the benefits of a low carb dinner
1:51:28 – Tom’s thoughts on carb backloading
1:57:08 – Two questions about carbs, and the main 2 reasons why Tom likes to wave carb amounts
2:04:20 – Summary of Tom’s carb strategy, and thoughts on skipping breakfast
2:06:28 – Food quality
2:08:12 – Patron question from Tyler: Thoughts on protein powders and artificial flavoring?
2:13:19 – Why Tom doesn’t like BCAA’s
2:15:51 – More on food quality and nutrient density
2:20:49 – Seed oils
2:22:19 – Tom’s stance on meat and animal products
2:24:34 – Beans, legumes, and anti-nutrients
2:27:06 – Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR)
2:31:34 – Gratitude
Tom Herbert is known as the usefulcoach, and is a leader in climbing sports nutrition. We talked about common themes in clients he works with, his philosophy of getting climbers to eat more calories to support a higher training volume, muscle protein synthesis, carbohydrate recommendations and timing, food quality, leucine supplementation, and much more.
Support the Podcast:
We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:
- Bryan Fast (he's the first one!)
Become a Patron:
Show Notes:
thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/tom-herbert-part-1
Nuggets:
5:37 – The ambiance of Boulder, CO
6:41 – Tom’s night at an outdoor club
8:39 – The ClimbSci podcast (Tom’s old podcast project)
10:23 – How Tom’s nutrition approach has changed since the ClimbSci podcast days, and seeking critique on Reddit
12:30 – How I connected with Tom via Hazel Findlay, and my goal for this conversation
15:04 – Who is Tom Herbert (@usefulcoach), and getting climbers to eat more to get more out of life
19:45 – Common themes in the clients Tom works with
22:56 – How climbers tend to eat the least amount of food they can get away with, and the weight of food and water
27:36 – Book recommendations are not real life, and Tom’s experiment with a cycling diet of very high carb
30:56 – Michael Phelps, and Tom’s central message of eating more so we can do more training
38:34 – Weight vs. lean mass and body composition
44:53 – Gaining lean body mass while training
47:45 – Progress in your training plan as a prime metric
50:53 – My experience with being stronger and lean but “fluffy around the middle”, Tom’s experience working with physique athletes, and breaking down the ideals we have in our heads as climbers
55:47 – The disconnect between looking badass and being badass, and “we tend to want to look like we climb harder than we actually climb.”
58:35 – “Is this everything I can do with my body?”, “Am I doing everything I can do to be healthy?”, and excepting our bodies
1:01:33 – Fat loss is not a linear process
1:02:24 – Aidan Roberts’ DEXA scan, and the cost of dieting
1:06:34 – Accounting for different bodies looking different at the same body fat percentage, and the selection bias of naturally lean people in pro climbing
1:10:42 – Tracking absolute strength, and focusing on improving the quality and the volume of your training over time
1:14:57 – Staying the same weight at higher calories, and reaching a new homeostasis if you do increase weight
1:17:44 – My experience with gaining weight, finding a new homeostasis, and getting stronger than ever before
1:20:20 – Energy availability, and how many calories Tom has his athletes eat on a rest day and training day (using me as an example)
1:29:17 – Protein, muscle-protein synthesis, and eating protein 4-5 times per day
1:37:57 – Tom’s thoughts on my daily protein intake
1:40:29 – Waving carb amounts, and Tom’s recommendations for me for daily carbs
1:44:21 – Saturating the climbing/training session with glucose, and the benefits of a low carb dinner
1:51:28 – Tom’s thoughts on carb backloading
1:57:08 – Two questions about carbs, and the main 2 reasons why Tom likes to wave carb amounts
2:04:20 – Summary of Tom’s carb strategy, and thoughts on skipping breakfast
2:06:28 – Food quality
2:08:12 – Patron question from Tyler: Thoughts on protein powders and artificial flavoring?
2:13:19 – Why Tom doesn’t like BCAA’s
2:15:51 – More on food quality and nutrient density
2:20:49 – Seed oils
2:22:19 – Tom’s stance on meat and animal products
2:24:34 – Beans, legumes, and anti-nutrients
2:27:06 – Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR)
2:31:34 – Gratitude
Previous Episode
EP 91: Craig DeMartino — Amputating His Leg to Climb Again, El Cap Stories, and Embracing a New Normal
Craig DeMartino is a rock climber, motivational speaker, and teacher. His life changed in 2002 when he took a 100-foot ground fall. We talked about Craig’s accident and recovery, the decision to amputate his leg, climbing harder than ever after the accident, doing El Cap in a day, dealing with chronic pain, teaching adaptive climbing, and embracing a new normal.
Support the Podcast:
Become a Patron:
Show Notes:
thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/craig-demartino
Nuggets:
3:28 – El Cap, Craig’s son, and owning what you like
6:09 – His kids catching the climbing bug, and watching sports from the sidelines
8:12 – Adaptive sports, ball sports, and exploring sports outside the box
9:30 – Bouldering with a prosthetic leg
11:30 – Craig’s recent broken foot
15:23 – Trauma, avoiding getting hurt gain, and the hardware in his foot
17:00 – Being in Estes, relistening to EP 11 of the Enormocast, and sitting down in person
20:30 – Craig’s accident
36:05 – Waking up in the hospital, moving to an assisted living home, and eventually returning home
42:52 – The human body is amazing
43:51 – “Fuck it. I’m gonna cut my leg off and see what happens.” -Craig DeMartino
54:40 – “Who am I in this new form?”
56:04 – The barking dog, and the human barometer
58:42 – Pain and visualization
1:02:05 – Being honest about the ups and downs, and moving away from the accident
1:05:03 – New identities, and Hugh Herr
1:06:00 – “I would never change it”, and finding purpose in teaching adaptive sports
1:11:06 – Craig’s life before the accident, helping people now, and inclusivity
1:15:22 – Being a climber first, and the first all-adaptive ascent of El Cap
1:16:40 – Helping trauma patients find flow state through climbing
1:19:56 – Working through triggers and PTSD
1:22:56 – Craig’s recovery status
1:24:55 – How to hack the perspective without the injury, and how Will’s (Craig’s son’s) coach Mikey influenced him
1:29:15 – Question from Chris Kalous: “Why do you swear so much, Craig?”
1:31:54 – Patron question from Tyler: What made your story so captivating when you shared it on the Enormocast?
1:35:35 – Talking with Steve and remembering the accident, and going back to ‘White Man’
1:38:52 – Rannveig’s story, self-blame, and moving forward
1:41:48 – Patron question from Graham: How can people in the helping professions provide better opportunities for empowerment for people with disabilities?
1:47:23 – Patron question from Levi: How could we go about making a centralized group for adaptive climbers?
1:51:07 – How to connect with Craig
1:52:00 – Patron question from Andrew: Have you tried custom prosthetics for a specific move or route?
1:55:54 – Craig’s quiver of legs, and our amazing feet
1:58:24 – Patron question from Eli: What have been some of the hardest lessons, and best and encouraging ones since your fall?
2:00:40 – “When you get up there, don’t take no for an answer.” - HK
2:01:56 – Rock climbing is hard, and explaining rock climbing to your Grandma
2:04:04 – Patron question from Eli: What advice might you have for other climbers with kids?
2:09:09 – Most meaningful climbs since the injury, speed climbing El Cap with Hans Florine, and sport climbing with Cindy (Craig’s wife)
2:16:30 – Climbing his hardest after the accident
2:19:18 – Sending ‘Dirty Smelly Hippie’, soft grades, and feeling confident at 12d
2:23:16 – The steep style of the Red, climbing with one leg, and Tommy Caldwell as the most famous amputee
2:26:55 – Patron question from Ken Klein: Moving to Puerto Rico, what will you miss most about the Fort Collins scene? How has it evolved in your time there?
2:28:53 – Continuing the work in Puerto Rico, and chasing shorts weather
2:32:54 – Why Craig hates pants
2:34:44 – What Craig hopes to still accomplish in his climbing
2:36:48 – How the experience of climbing scales
2:37:58 – Grateful for opportunities
2:39:00 – We are all struggling with something
2:41:38 – Life is fluid
Next Episode
Follow-Up: Natasha Barnes — Climbing Harder in a Stronger Body (Teaser)
This full episode is available for Patrons right now! This is a teaser of my second Follow-Up with Natasha Barnes. We talked about how each of us has changed as climbers from gaining muscle mass, how Natasha balances training for climbing with powerlifting, how powerlifting has made her a more patient athlete, encouraging vs. forcing adaptation, separating performing and training, and each of our climbing goals.
Become a Patron to get access to the full episode! And support the podcast!
*The full version is 1:16:25.
Natasha's other episodes:
Follow-Up: Natasha Barnes (our first one from April 2021)
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