E84 - Inner Change For the Outer Win! - Podcast with Dr Susan Zhang

04/19/25 • 55 min

Welcome to The Inner Game of Change, the podcast that explores the evolving landscape of change management, leadership, and transformation.

In today’s episode, I’m thrilled to be joined by Susan Zhang, a creative technologist, author, and global thought leader. From her beginnings in China to her journey as an international student in Australia, Susan has embraced the discomfort of change to unlock personal and professional growth.

We dive deep into topics like the power of stepping outside your comfort zone, the role of ambition in driving change, and how embracing failure can lead to unexpected growth. Susan shares her unique perspective on leadership, drawing from her experiences at Google and her bold decisions to pivot in her career.

If you're navigating a time of uncertainty or change, this conversation offers powerful insights on how to move forward with confidence, embrace new opportunities, and transform challenges into growth.

I am grateful to have Susan chatting with me today.

Susan's Book
Life Outside My Comfort Zone: Hup draak!

About Susan

024 Awarded Ph.D. at UOW with Examimers' Commendation for Outstanding Thesis
2022 Australian Ambassador's Award for Women in Leadership Judges' commendation
2021 UOW Young Alumni Award
2019 Young Australia China Alumni of the Year Award - Australian Embassy in China
2019 Book release on Amazon: http://bit.ly/susanfirstbook
From an international student to a global tech leader, from a career at Google UK to TikTok in China, from an introvert to a TEDx speaker, Dr Susan Zhang continues to push boundaries and explore outside her comfort zone.
Dr Zhang is recognised as a high-energy business leader and technology serial entrepreneur. She effectively brings a combination of technical prowess and commercial acumen in her leadership positions at Google, later for ByteDance (TikTok), Amazon and Canva where her career has taken her to Australia, China and the United Kingdom. Currently, she is the Head of Creative and EdTech, Digital Trade for the British Government based in Sydney.
Dr Zhang is a published author, a TEDx Speaker and a mentor for young entrepreneurs. Dr Zhang believes her research can play a key part in harnessing the capabilities of AI-driven education influencers at the intersection of e-learning technology and pedagogy Digitalisation.

Contact Susan

Dr Susan’s Profile

linkedin.com/in/zhangsusan

Websites

Send us a text

Ali Juma
@The Inner Game of Change podcast

Follow me on LinkedIn

Welcome to The Inner Game of Change, the podcast that explores the evolving landscape of change management, leadership, and transformation.

I am grateful to have Susan chatting with me today.

Susan's Book
Life Outside My Comfort Zone: Hup draak!

About Susan

Contact Susan

Dr Susan’s Profile

linkedin.com/in/zhangsusan

Websites

Send us a text

Ali Juma
@The Inner Game of Change podcast

Follow me on LinkedIn

Previous Episode

Mental Models For Managing Change - Second Order Thinking

Welcome to a very special mini-series on The Inner Game of Change. I’m thrilled to take you on this journey as we explore something both timeless and practical: Mental Models for Managing Change.

In this episode, we explore a mental model that invites us to look beyond the immediate impact of change: Second-Order Thinking.

So often, change initiatives are shaped around what we expect to happen next. But in reality, change rarely follows a straight line — and first-order decisions often lead to second and third-order consequences we did not anticipate.

Second-Order Thinking encourages us to slow down and ask better questions — “And then what?” It helps us move beyond short-term fixes and consider the ripple effects, unintended outcomes, and longer-term dynamics our decisions might set in motion.

If you have ever implemented a change that worked on paper but created new challenges in practice, or if you are aiming to lead change that truly lasts, this episode offers a practical lens to deepen your thinking and strengthen your strategy.

Listen now to discover how Second-Order Thinking can help you lead change with foresight, clarity, and intention.

Send us a text

Ali Juma
@The Inner Game of Change podcast

Follow me on LinkedIn

Next Episode

Mental Models For Managing Change - The Ladder Of Inference

In this episode of Mental Models for Managing Change, we explore a mental model that helps us pause, reflect, and challenge how we make sense of the world around us: The Ladder of Inference.

Developed by organisational psychologist Chris Argyris and later popularised by Peter Senge, this model shows how quickly we move from observing facts to taking action — often based on assumptions, not evidence.

It is especially useful in moments of tension, misalignment, or misunderstanding — and in change work, those moments happen often.

If you have ever walked away from a meeting wondering, “How did we end up on such different pages?”, this episode is for you.

Learn how to recognise the thinking patterns that drive your decisions, how to stay grounded in what is observable, and how to open up better, more constructive conversations — even during complex change.

Listen now to step off the ladder, and into clearer, more intentional leadership.

Send us a text

Ali Juma
@The Inner Game of Change podcast

Follow me on LinkedIn

The Inner Game of Change - E84 - Inner Change For the Outer Win! - Podcast with Dr Susan Zhang

Transcript

Susan00:00:00.119

I remember my farewell email from Google on my last day . I wrote joining Google make me strong , leaving Google make me stronger . I know it's kind of naive when you were young you write that way , but still I feel like that's true . Every different experience taught me different things , every different type of work . I learned it in a hard way . As you mentioned , I used to be