
The Principles and Practices Behind Team of Teams (Part 1) with David Silverman & Jessica Reif
10/01/20 • 104 min
In this episode of The Idealcast, Gene Kim sits down with Team of Team’s coauthor and CEO of Crosslead, David Silverman, and Director of Research and Development at CrossLead, Jessica Reif, for a two-part interview.
In Team of Teams, David and his coauthors explained how the Joint Special Forces Task Force in Iraq was struggling to achieve its mission, and how they turned it into a success. Their experience led to a deep and critical rethinking of almost everything in US military services and in the commercial industry. Now at CrossLead, David works with Jessica Reif to continue researching and codifying these practices into their management framework.
In Part 1 of the interview, Gene and his guests discuss the structure and dynamics of the transformation described in Team of Teams and how these leadership characteristics are needed today in the new ways of working. This leadership framework reinforces the concepts of common purpose, shared consciousness, empowerment, and trust within organizations to help teams work together more effectively in complex environments, particularly when they have to continuously adapt to change. Stay tuned for Part 2.
BIO:
David Silverman
Entrepreneur, bestselling author, and former Navy SEAL, David Silverman is the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of CrossLead, Inc. Founded in 2016, CrossLead is a technology company whose leadership and management framework is used by leaders and companies around the globe.
In 2015, David co-authored the New York Times bestselling leadership and management book Team of Teams: New Rules of Engagement for a Complex World. As a thought leader on culture change, high-performing teams, and leadership, he is a frequent guest speaker for business leaders and conferences around the globe.
After his 13-year career as a Navy SEAL, David and a group of like-minded friends sought to reinvent the way the world does business in today’s dynamic environment. Based on their collective service in the world’s premier Special Operations Units, they devised a holistic leadership and management framework called CrossLead. Today, CrossLead is a leading framework for scaling agile practices across the enterprise. Implemented in some of the world’s most successful organizations, CrossLead drives faster time-to-market, dramatic increases in productivity, improvement in employee engagement, and more predictable business results.
Prior to CrossLead, David co-founded the McChrystal Group where he served as CEO for five years. A graduate of the United States Naval Academy, David served as a Navy SEAL from 1998-2011. He graduated Basic Underwater Demolition School (BUD/S) Class 221 in 1999 as the Honor Man. David deployed six times around the world, including combat deployments to Iraq, Afghanistan, and Southeast Asia where he received three Bronze Stars and numerous other commendations.
David serves on the advisory board of the Headstrong Project and is a member of the Young Presidents’ Organization. David lives in Washington, DC, with his wife, Hollis, and their two children. He maintains an active lifestyle as a waterman and runner.
Twitter: @dksilverman
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-silverman-648035a/
Website: https://www.crosslead.com/
Jess Reif
Jessica Reif is the Director of Research & development for CrossLead Inc, where she leverages the latest management research to develop new approaches to increasing business agility for CrossLead’s clients. She leads CrossLead’s education efforts and has developed training programs that have been delivered to over 20,000 leaders. Previously, Jessica served as a Product Delivery Manager for applied machine learning and engineering teams at Oracle Data Cloud, where her role was to facilitate agile development among a team-of-teams. Jessica holds a B.S. in Industrial and Labor Relations from Cornell University. In her free time, she enjoys golfing, baking, and hiking.
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Jess_Reif
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-reif/
Website: https://www.crosslead.com/
YOU’LL LEARN ABOUT:
- The philosophy and thinking behind the book, Team of Teams
- The organization and management required to support the large group of personnel involved in the mission described in the book
- The dramatic changes in the transformations mentioned in the book and how and why it worked
- The structure and dynamics before and after the transformation
- What leadership characteristics are needed in this new way of working
- Ops Intelligence Update Call
- What was required to increase the temp of operations
RESOURCES
In this episode of The Idealcast, Gene Kim sits down with Team of Team’s coauthor and CEO of Crosslead, David Silverman, and Director of Research and Development at CrossLead, Jessica Reif, for a two-part interview.
In Team of Teams, David and his coauthors explained how the Joint Special Forces Task Force in Iraq was struggling to achieve its mission, and how they turned it into a success. Their experience led to a deep and critical rethinking of almost everything in US military services and in the commercial industry. Now at CrossLead, David works with Jessica Reif to continue researching and codifying these practices into their management framework.
In Part 1 of the interview, Gene and his guests discuss the structure and dynamics of the transformation described in Team of Teams and how these leadership characteristics are needed today in the new ways of working. This leadership framework reinforces the concepts of common purpose, shared consciousness, empowerment, and trust within organizations to help teams work together more effectively in complex environments, particularly when they have to continuously adapt to change. Stay tuned for Part 2.
BIO:
David Silverman
Entrepreneur, bestselling author, and former Navy SEAL, David Silverman is the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of CrossLead, Inc. Founded in 2016, CrossLead is a technology company whose leadership and management framework is used by leaders and companies around the globe.
In 2015, David co-authored the New York Times bestselling leadership and management book Team of Teams: New Rules of Engagement for a Complex World. As a thought leader on culture change, high-performing teams, and leadership, he is a frequent guest speaker for business leaders and conferences around the globe.
After his 13-year career as a Navy SEAL, David and a group of like-minded friends sought to reinvent the way the world does business in today’s dynamic environment. Based on their collective service in the world’s premier Special Operations Units, they devised a holistic leadership and management framework called CrossLead. Today, CrossLead is a leading framework for scaling agile practices across the enterprise. Implemented in some of the world’s most successful organizations, CrossLead drives faster time-to-market, dramatic increases in productivity, improvement in employee engagement, and more predictable business results.
Prior to CrossLead, David co-founded the McChrystal Group where he served as CEO for five years. A graduate of the United States Naval Academy, David served as a Navy SEAL from 1998-2011. He graduated Basic Underwater Demolition School (BUD/S) Class 221 in 1999 as the Honor Man. David deployed six times around the world, including combat deployments to Iraq, Afghanistan, and Southeast Asia where he received three Bronze Stars and numerous other commendations.
David serves on the advisory board of the Headstrong Project and is a member of the Young Presidents’ Organization. David lives in Washington, DC, with his wife, Hollis, and their two children. He maintains an active lifestyle as a waterman and runner.
Twitter: @dksilverman
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-silverman-648035a/
Website: https://www.crosslead.com/
Jess Reif
Jessica Reif is the Director of Research & development for CrossLead Inc, where she leverages the latest management research to develop new approaches to increasing business agility for CrossLead’s clients. She leads CrossLead’s education efforts and has developed training programs that have been delivered to over 20,000 leaders. Previously, Jessica served as a Product Delivery Manager for applied machine learning and engineering teams at Oracle Data Cloud, where her role was to facilitate agile development among a team-of-teams. Jessica holds a B.S. in Industrial and Labor Relations from Cornell University. In her free time, she enjoys golfing, baking, and hiking.
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Jess_Reif
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-reif/
Website: https://www.crosslead.com/
YOU’LL LEARN ABOUT:
- The philosophy and thinking behind the book, Team of Teams
- The organization and management required to support the large group of personnel involved in the mission described in the book
- The dramatic changes in the transformations mentioned in the book and how and why it worked
- The structure and dynamics before and after the transformation
- What leadership characteristics are needed in this new way of working
- Ops Intelligence Update Call
- What was required to increase the temp of operations
RESOURCES
Previous Episode

The Surprising Implications of Architecting for Generality with Michael Nygard
On this continuation of Gene Kim’s interview with Michael Nygard, Senior Vice President, Travel Solutions Platform Development Enterprise Architecture, for Sabre, they discuss his reflections on Admiral Rickover's work with the US Naval Reactor Core and how it may or may not resonate with the principles we hold so near and dear in the DevOps community. They also tease apart the learnings from the architecture of the Toyota Production System and their ability to drive down the cost of change.
They also discuss how we can tell when there are genuinely too many “musical notes” or when those extra notes allow for better and simpler systems that are easier to build and maintain and can even make other systems around them simpler too? And how so many of the lessons and sensibilities came from working with Rich Hickey, the creator of the Clojure programming language.
Bio:
Michael Nygard strives to raise the bar and ease the pain for developers around the world. He shares his passion and energy for improvement with everyone he meets, sometimes even with their permission. Living with systems in production taught Michael about the importance of operations and writing production-ready software. Highly-available, highly-scalable commerce systems are his forte.
Michael has written and co-authored several books, including 97 Things Every Software Architect Should Know and the bestseller Release It!, a book about building software that survives the real world. He is a highly sought speaker who addresses developers, architects, and technology leaders around the world.
Michael is currently Senior Vice President, Travel Solutions Platform Development Enterprise Architecture, for Sabre, the company reimagining the business of travel.
- Twitter: @mtnygard
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mtnygard/
- Website: https://www.michaelnygard.com/
You’ll Learn About:
- Admiral Rickover’s work with the Naval Nuclear Reactor Core
- Building great architecture for generality.
- Architecture as an organizing logic and means of software construction.
- Toyota Production System’s ability to drive down the cost of change through architecture
- Clojure programming language
- Cynefin framework
- How to know if a code is simpler or more complex
RESOURCES
- Cynefin framework
- Failure Is Not an Option: Mission Control from Mercury to Apollo 13 and Beyond by Gene Kranz
- "Why software development is an engineering discipline," presentation by Glenn Vanderburg at O'Reilly Software Architecture Conference
- "10+ Deploys Per Day: Dev and Ops Cooperation," presentation by John Allspaw
- "Architecture Without an End State," presentation by Michael T. Nygard at YOW! 2012
- "Spec-ulation Keynote," presentation by Rich Hickey
- re-frame (re-frame is the magnificent UI framework which both Mike and I love using and hold in the highest regard — by no means should the "too many notes" comment be construed that re-frame has too many notes!)
- "Fabulous Fortunes, Fewer Failures, and Faster Fixes from Functional Fundamentals," presentation by Scott Havens at DevOps Enterprise Summit Las Vegas, 2019
- "Clojure for Java Programmers Part 1," presentation by Rich Hickey at NYC Java Study Group
- Simple Made Easy presentation by Rich Hickey at Strange Loop 2011
- Love Letter To Clojure (Part 1) by Gene Kim
- The Idealcast, Episode 5: The Pursuit of Perfection: Dominant Architectures, Structure, and Dynamics: A Conversation With Dr. Steve Spear
- LambdaCast podcast hosted by David Koontz
TIMESTAMPS
[00:09] Intro
[02:19] Mike’s reflections on Steve Spear, Admiral Rickover and the US Naval reactor core
[04:33] Admiral Rickover’s 1962 memo
[08:13] Cynefin framework
[12:40] Applying to software engineering
<...Next Episode

(Dispatch from the Scenius) David Silverman’s DevOps Enterprise Summit London 2020 Talk
In the latest Dispatch from the Scenius, Gene Kim shares David Silverman’s 2020 presentation from DevOps Enterprise Summit London - Virtual. In a continuation of Episode 11, the Team of Teams coauthor and CEO of CrossLead talks about the key concepts from Team of Teams, and provides even more context for so many of the topics covered in last week’s episode.
David talks about the genesis of the joint special operations command, which was created after the failure of the daring Iran hostage rescue in 1979, and how it found itself in 2003 in Afghanistan and Iraq, tactically winning but strategically losing, unable to find terrorist leaders of Al Qaeda in Iraq. He describes the principles that they drew upon, which will be familiar to almost everyone in the DevOps community, the practices that it led to, the amazing outcomes that resulted, as well as the leadership skills needed in this new world.
BIO:
David Silverman
Entrepreneur, bestselling author, and former Navy SEAL, David Silverman is the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of CrossLead, Inc. Founded in 2016, CrossLead is a technology company whose leadership and management framework is used by leaders and companies around the globe.
In 2015, David co-authored the New York Times bestselling leadership and management book Team of Teams: New Rules of Engagement for a Complex World. As a thought leader on culture change, high-performing teams, and leadership, he is a frequent guest speaker for business leaders and conferences around the globe.
After his 13-year career as a Navy SEAL, David and a group of like-minded friends sought to reinvent the way the world does business in today’s dynamic environment. Based on their collective service in the world’s premier Special Operations Units, they devised a holistic leadership and management framework called CrossLead. Today, CrossLead is a leading framework for scaling agile practices across the enterprise. Implemented in some of the world’s most successful organizations, CrossLead drives faster time-to-market, dramatic increases in productivity, improvement in employee engagement, and more predictable business results.
Prior to CrossLead, David co-founded the McChrystal Group where he served as CEO for five years. A graduate of the United States Naval Academy, David served as a Navy SEAL from 1998-2011. He graduated Basic Underwater Demolition School (BUD/S) Class 221 in 1999 as the Honor Man. David deployed six times around the world, including combat deployments to Iraq, Afghanistan, and Southeast Asia where he received three Bronze Stars and numerous other commendations.
David serves on the advisory board of the Headstrong Project and is a member of the Young Presidents’ Organization. David lives in Washington, DC, with his wife, Hollis, and their two children. He maintains an active lifestyle as a waterman and runner.
Twitter: @dksilverman
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-silverman-648035a/
Website: https://www.crosslead.com/
YOU’LL LEARN ABOUT:
- Key concepts from the book, Team of Teams: New Rules of Engagement for a Complex World
- The genesis of the joint special operations command
- How the principles, practices, outcomes and leaderships relate to the DevOps community
RESOURCES
- Team of Teams: New Rules of Engagement for a Complex World by General Stanley McChrystal, Tantum Collins, David Silverman and Chris Fussell
- Cynefin framework
TIMESTAMPS
[00:08] Intro
[01:56] Meet David Silverman
[04:05] The inception of US special operations
[07:35] Best practices associated with management
[10:59] Cynefin framework
[11:53] Complexity environment
[14:32] How to senior business leadership can communicate effectively and persuasively
[15:59] Back to fundamentals
[19:55] DevOps Enterprise Summit Las Vegas - Virtual
[21:33] Think as a living organism
[23:19] Model of radical transparency
[24:02] How to make it work inside your organizations
[31:24] How to define great leadership
[33:53] David’s request for examples
[34:22] Coming up in the next episode
[35:42] Outro
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