The Fourth Curtain - Things Blow Up with Mike Pondsmith

Things Blow Up with Mike Pondsmith

Explicit content warning

10/10/24 • 87 min

The Fourth Curtain

In this episode of The Fourth Curtain, legendary game designer Mike Pondsmith joins hosts Alex and Aaron for an in-depth conversation about his expansive career, from creating the tabletop RPG Cyberpunk to collaborating with CD Projekt Red on Cyberpunk 2077. Mike discusses his early days in game development, the creation of Night City, and the challenges of translating tabletop concepts into video games. The episode is full of humor, industry insights, and engaging anecdotes, offering listeners a rare look into the mind of a creator who has shaped both pen-and-paper and digital gaming worlds.

Time-Stamped Highlights

[05:00:23] – Introduction of Mike Pondsmith, founder of R. Talsorian Games and creator of Cyberpunk.
[05:01:15] – Mike talks about his early work on Crimson Skies, MechCommander, and Blood Wake.
[00:02:19] – Discussion on the challenges of developing Crimson Skies and insights into game development at the time.
[05:03:57] – Mike shares his surprise at how organized CD Projekt Red was during the development of Witcher 3and Cyberpunk 2077.
[09:17:98] – Mike Pondsmith talks about inventing Cyberpunk and how it grew into a genre-defining game.
[10:04:69] – The origins of CD Projekt Red’s relationship with Cyberpunk, including a fun anecdote about selling the first copies of Cyberpunk in Poland.
[11:49:84] – Mike’s involvement in helping the CD Projekt team stay true to the Cyberpunk universe and why flying cars were initially excluded from Cyberpunk 2077.
[12:52:40] – Discussion on the differences between Cyberpunk and Blade Runner and how Night City was built with a unique vision.
[14:53:02] – Mike recalls his son’s involvement in game design and how the family has collaborated on creative projects like Shadow Scar.
[16:42:91] – The renaissance of tabletop games and the challenges with distribution in the modern market.
[22:35:15] – Mike shares a humorous story about playing D&D with a “lady of the night” as a cleric in one of his first tabletop games.
[28:50:00] – Mike explains his philosophy on world-building and how Cyberpunk was designed to allow players to fully engage with a violent, dystopian world.
[37:05:86] – Mike describes how tabletop game design provides a skeleton framework that translates well into video game development.
[49:51:27] – Mike reveals that Night City was inspired by Disneyland, with different areas modeled after distinct thematic zones.
[54:49:35] – The story behind designing the corporate logos in Cyberpunk and the longevity of some of his designs, including Arasaka.
[62:09:65] – The unexpected naming of R. Talsorian Games and the humorous origin behind the company name.

This episode provides a fascinating journey through the mind of one of the most influential figures in both tabletop and video games, pa

Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life!
Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin
Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com
Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe
Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain
Follow us on twitter: @fourthcurtain
Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com
Featuring the music track Liberation by 505

Time-Stamped Highlights

[05:00:23] – Introduction of Mike Pondsmith, founder of R. Talsorian Games and creator of Cyberpunk.
[05:01:15] – Mike talks about his early work on Crimson Skies, MechCommander, and Blood Wake.
[00:02:19] – Discussion on the challenges of developing Crimson Skies and insights into game development at the time.
[05:03:57] – Mike shares his surprise at how organized CD Projekt Red was during the development of Witcher 3and Cyberpunk 2077.
[09:17:98] – Mike Pondsmith talks about inventing Cyberpunk and how it grew into a genre-defining game.
[10:04:69] – The origins of CD Projekt Red’s relationship with Cyberpunk, including a fun anecdote about selling the first copies of Cyberpunk in Poland.
[11:49:84] – Mike’s involvement in helping the CD Projekt team stay true to the Cyberpunk universe and why flying cars were initially excluded from Cyberpunk 2077.
[12:52:40] – Discussion on the differences between Cyberpunk and Blade Runner and how Night City was built with a unique vision.
[14:53:02] – Mike recalls his son’s involvement in game design and how the family has collaborated on creative projects like Shadow Scar.
[16:42:91] – The renaissance of tabletop games and the challenges with distribution in the modern market.
[22:35:15] – Mike shares a humorous story about playing D&D with a “lady of the night” as a cleric in one of his first tabletop games.
[28:50:00] – Mike explains his philosophy on world-building and how Cyberpunk was designed to allow players to fully engage with a violent, dystopian world.
[37:05:86] – Mike describes how tabletop game design provides a skeleton framework that translates well into video game development.
[49:51:27] – Mike reveals that Night City was inspired by Disneyland, with different areas modeled after distinct thematic zones.
[54:49:35] – The story behind designing the corporate logos in Cyberpunk and the longevity of some of his designs, including Arasaka.
[62:09:65] – The unexpected naming of R. Talsorian Games and the humorous origin behind the company name.

This episode provides a fascinating journey through the mind of one of the most influential figures in both tabletop and video games, pa

Previous Episode

The Business Romance of Mihai Pohontu

This week on The Fourth Curtain, we’re joined by Mihai Pohontu, CEO and Chairman of Amber Studio, a distinguished figure in the gaming industry. Mihai, who was recently named Romanian Entrepreneur of the Year, shares his fascinating journey from the upheaval of post-revolution Romania to becoming a leader in global game development. A self-described business romantic , Mihai offers insightful perspectives on the role of capitalism and entrepreneurship in shaping a better society.
Amber Studio, a valued partner to this podcast, has provided critical development services across the industry, including work on popular titles like Stumble Guys. In this episode, we dive into Mihai’s unique path into gaming through quality assurance, the philosophy behind game testing, and Amber Studio's approach to talent development in emerging markets. We also explore the industry’s challenges and opportunities in training the next generation of game developers and how Amber is actively contributing to this effort. Join us for an in-depth conversation about the future of game development, business philosophy, and the personal experiences that shaped Mihai’s career.

Timestamped Highlights:

[00:01:00] – The Value of Game Testing: Mihai discusses how starting as a tester provides invaluable insights into how software grows and evolves, highlighting the benefits for aspiring game developers.
[00:05:00] – Amber Studio and the Global Game Development Ecosystem: Mihai shares the journey of Amber Studio, including its partnership with major studios and contributions to games like Stumble Guys.
[00:09:00] – Business Romantic Philosophy: Mihai introduces his idea of "business romanticism," where capitalism is seen as a transformative force for good, beyond shareholder value.
[00:12:00] – Bridging the Junior to Senior Talent Gap: Discussion on the challenges of transitioning junior developers to senior roles and the initiatives Amber Studio has implemented to train and support emerging talent in Romania and Mexico.
[00:19:00] – Amber Studio's Growth: Mihai details the expansion of Amber Studio into multiple countries, the diversity of platforms they work on, and the unique challenges of managing such a large team across different regions.
[00:24:00] – Mihai’s Upbringing in Revolutionary Romania: He reflects on growing up in Bucharest during a time of political and economic upheaval, which shaped his relationship with video games as an escape.
[00:32:00] – Early Career at Activision: Mihai recounts his early experiences working as a QA tester for games like Civilization Call to Power and Medieval: Total War at Activision.
[00:46:00] – The Formation of EA Romania: Mihai explains how he built EA’s Romanian branch from the ground up, hiring and managing a team that helped transform the European mobile gaming market.
[00:51:00] – Challenges in the Current Game Industry: Mihai shares his thoughts on how the industry has treated external development teams during difficult financial times and calls for more ethical business pract

Next Episode

From Pong to Deconstructor: Mishka Katkoff’s Global Gaming Journey

Ok, we know this episode should be called Something Fun on the Toilet with MK, but we're chose to keep it classy. Our guest this week is Michail Katkoff, a veteran of Zynga, Supercell, and Rovio, partner in Play Ventures, and founder of Deconstructor of Fun. In all of these different roles he's developed a unique understanding of our industry from different perspectives. We discuss product management, insane mobile profits and the ecosystem necessary to support game studios.
00:00 – Introduction: Alex and Aaron introduce Mishka, highlighting his diverse roles in the gaming industry.
02:00 – First Steps: Mishka talks about his first role in the industry at Digital Chocolate and his encounters with Trip Hawkins.
05:45 – Cultural Differences in Gaming: Mishka reflects on the differences between the Finnish and Californian working cultures.
08:30 – Early Influences: Growing up in the Soviet Union, Mishka shares how Pong and Sega sparked his passion for gaming.
10:50 – From Business to Games: Mishka recounts how he left the corporate world to pursue his dream in the gaming industry.
14:00 – Product Management Explained: Mishka breaks down the role of a Product Manager in gaming and how he helped shape game monetization.
16:30 – Crazy Discoveries in Player Data: Mishka reveals insights from analyzing player behavior and the surprising findings about in-game sales.
22:00 – Ethics in Monetization: A candid conversation about the moral questions surrounding microtransactions and the 'whale' phenomenon.
29:00 – Building the Finnish Gaming Scene: Mishka explains how Nokia and the Finnish education system helped create a gaming ecosystem.
36:00 – Challenges for Indie Developers: Discussion on the current challenges small studios face in breaking into the mobile gaming market.
40:30 – Favorite Games: Mishka shares his love for grand strategy and historical games, and his mobile game preferences.
45:00 – Deconstructor of Fun: How Mishka started Deconstructor of Fun and grew it into a leading platform for industry insights.
50:00 – Launching a Studio: Mishka talks about starting a game studio and its eventual acquisition by Sony.

This episode is perfect for anyone interested in the gaming industry, product management, or how mobile gaming has evolved over the years!

The Fourth Curtain - Things Blow Up with Mike Pondsmith

Transcript

Alex (00:01.106)
Hello good friends and welcome to this week's edition of the fourth curtain We are so so lucky to have with us longtime friend long ago friend legendary game designer
Mike Pondsmith (00:04.788)
Okay. Okay. Okay, I'm there.
Aaron (00:20.003)
first person to wear sunglasses on the show.
Mike Pondsmith (00:20.061)
Yeah.
Alex (00:23.148)
Yeah, well, he and he looks super cool with those glasses on legendary game designer whose career has spanned pen and