
Making Moonrise
11/14/19 • 43 min
Fifty years after Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, and Michael Collins went to the moon, it’s hard to shake off the afterimage of the Saturn V rocket rising into the sky on a column of flame, and remember that the astronauts' bold adventure was also the product of decades of work by engineers, politicians, propagandists, and even science fiction writers. That’s the gap Lillian Cunningham of the Washington Post set out to fix in her podcast, Moonrise. And she’s here with us today to talk about how the show got made, what she thinks the Apollo story can teach us about the power of imagination, and how the stories we tell help us to write the future.
Cunningham has been at The Washington Post for nine years, and in addition to creating Moonrise, she produced and hosted the limited-run podcasts Presidential and Constitutional. She spoke with Soonish from the Post's studios in Washington, D.C., on October 29, 2019, and in this episode we're sharing a version of the conversation that's been edited for length and clarity.
See the episode page on the Soonish website for full show notes. And for an even deeper dive, including a chat about Lillian's writing process, the music for Moonrise, and the new Apple TV+ series "For All Mankind," check out this bonus segment at our website.
Chapter Guide
0:00 Hub & Spoke Sonic ID
01:31 Soonish Theme
01:45 The Golden Age of Limited-Run Podcasts
02:48 A World-Changing Podcast about the Moon Race
05:08 Welcoming Lillian Cunningham to Soonish
05:45 Lillian’s Journey to Podcasting
08:53 Why Make a Show about the Moon Race?
12:21 Beginnings: Why Start the Moon Story in 1933?
17:58 The Role of Science Fiction and Futurism in the Moon Program
20:52 The Soviet Side of the Moon Story
24:10 Midroll Message: Recommending Words To That Effect
26:07 What Makes an Expert an Expert?
31:14 The Story Never Stops
35:19 Will We Ever Go Back to the Moon?
39:14 End Credits and Patreon Thank-Yous
41:38 Promoting Hub & Spoke Newest Show, Subtitle
The Soonish opening theme is by Graham Gordon Ramsay.
Additional music is from Titlecard Music and Sound.
If you like the show, please rate and review Soonish on Apple Podcasts / iTunes! The more ratings we get, the more people will find the show.
Listener support is the rocket fuel that keeps this whole ship going! You can pitch in with a per-episode donation at patreon.com/soonish.
Give us a shout on Twitter and sign up for our email newsletter, Signals from Soonish.
Please check out Subtitle from Patric Cox and Kavita Pillay. It's the newest addition to the Hub & Spoke audio collective. The premiere episode Not So Anonymous is about the remarkable power of forensic linguistics software to unmask writers who'd probably rather stay unknown.
Fifty years after Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, and Michael Collins went to the moon, it’s hard to shake off the afterimage of the Saturn V rocket rising into the sky on a column of flame, and remember that the astronauts' bold adventure was also the product of decades of work by engineers, politicians, propagandists, and even science fiction writers. That’s the gap Lillian Cunningham of the Washington Post set out to fix in her podcast, Moonrise. And she’s here with us today to talk about how the show got made, what she thinks the Apollo story can teach us about the power of imagination, and how the stories we tell help us to write the future.
Cunningham has been at The Washington Post for nine years, and in addition to creating Moonrise, she produced and hosted the limited-run podcasts Presidential and Constitutional. She spoke with Soonish from the Post's studios in Washington, D.C., on October 29, 2019, and in this episode we're sharing a version of the conversation that's been edited for length and clarity.
See the episode page on the Soonish website for full show notes. And for an even deeper dive, including a chat about Lillian's writing process, the music for Moonrise, and the new Apple TV+ series "For All Mankind," check out this bonus segment at our website.
Chapter Guide
0:00 Hub & Spoke Sonic ID
01:31 Soonish Theme
01:45 The Golden Age of Limited-Run Podcasts
02:48 A World-Changing Podcast about the Moon Race
05:08 Welcoming Lillian Cunningham to Soonish
05:45 Lillian’s Journey to Podcasting
08:53 Why Make a Show about the Moon Race?
12:21 Beginnings: Why Start the Moon Story in 1933?
17:58 The Role of Science Fiction and Futurism in the Moon Program
20:52 The Soviet Side of the Moon Story
24:10 Midroll Message: Recommending Words To That Effect
26:07 What Makes an Expert an Expert?
31:14 The Story Never Stops
35:19 Will We Ever Go Back to the Moon?
39:14 End Credits and Patreon Thank-Yous
41:38 Promoting Hub & Spoke Newest Show, Subtitle
The Soonish opening theme is by Graham Gordon Ramsay.
Additional music is from Titlecard Music and Sound.
If you like the show, please rate and review Soonish on Apple Podcasts / iTunes! The more ratings we get, the more people will find the show.
Listener support is the rocket fuel that keeps this whole ship going! You can pitch in with a per-episode donation at patreon.com/soonish.
Give us a shout on Twitter and sign up for our email newsletter, Signals from Soonish.
Please check out Subtitle from Patric Cox and Kavita Pillay. It's the newest addition to the Hub & Spoke audio collective. The premiere episode Not So Anonymous is about the remarkable power of forensic linguistics software to unmask writers who'd probably rather stay unknown.
Previous Episode

Election Dreams and Nightmares
The moment in the voting booth when you put your pen to your ballot (or put your finger to the electronic touchscreen, as the case may be) is democracy distilled. It’s the act that makes America a republic. But while the casting your vote is critical, it’s everything that happens before, during, and after that moment that makes up the larger election system. And these days there are whole armies of people working to influence and disrupt that system—and opposing armies working to protect it and make it safer and more accessible.
In this special Halloween 2019 edition of Soonish, we look at the scary vulnerabilities in the U.S. election system that were exposed after the 2016 presidential election, and we meet a company working to make it possible for everyone to vote securely on their smartphones.
We hear from a retired U.S. Air Force major general who’s deeply worried about the lack of good “cyber hygiene” within state election agencies, and national security experts who fear the 2020 presidential vote could once again be manipulated and distorted by social media misinformation and disinformation.
And we meet a science fiction author who says democracy is always a work in progress, but argues there’s an urgent need now for better media literacy and clearer thinking about how to strengthen the key beliefs, norms, and institutions behind democracy.
Check out the complete show notes, including a full episode transcript, at soonishpodcast.org.
Chapter Guide
00:00 Hub & Spoke Sonic ID
00:13 Opening Theme
00:22 A Scary Story from the Senate Russia Report
02:49 E-Voting Machines Without Paper Trails
03:38 The Nightmare Scenario
04:28 Maj. Gen. Earl Matthews on Cyber Hygiene
06:33 More Money for Election Security
07:23 The Big Question: Can We Achieve Fair Elections?
07:52 The Anti-Sikh Riots of 1984
09:47 Nimit Sawhney at SXSW
10:58 The Founding of Voatz
13:58 How to Vote on Voatz
22:03 Baby Steps and Criticisms
24:19 Meet Centenal Cycle Author Malka Older
27:58 Elections as Systems, and the Dangers of Disinformation
30:59 Adapting to New Communications Platforms
32:32 The Fragility of Legitimacy
33:45 End Credits, and a Shout-Out to Open Source
Notes
The Soonish opening theme is by Graham Gordon Ramsay.
Additional music is from Titlecard Music and Sound.
Episode logo photograph by Element5 Digital on Unsplash.
Sound effects / foley from Freesound.org.
If you like the show, please rate and review Soonish on Apple Podcasts! The more ratings we get, the more people will find the show.
Listener support is the rocket fuel that keeps this whole ship going! You can pitch in with a per-episode donation at patreon.com/soonish.
Give us a shout on Twitter and sign up for our email newsletter, Signals from Soonish.
Please check out Open Source, one of the newest additions to the Hub & Spoke audio collective. Try the episode Do we want democracy or two-day shipping? with Matt Stoller from the Open Markets Institute.
Next Episode

Brittle, Anxious, Nonlinear, Incomprehensible: How One Futurist Frames the Pandemic
Futurists—who sometimes prefer to be called scenario planners or foresight thinkers—specialize in helping the rest of us understand the big trends and forces that will shape the world of tomorrow. So here’s what I really wanted to ask one: Is a cataclysm like the coronavirus pandemic of 2020 the kind of event we should be able to see coming? If so, then why didn’t we do more to get ready? Why has the federal government’s response to the spread of covid-19 been so inept? And above all, what should we be doing now to get our political and economic institutions back in shape so that they can cope better with the next challenge?
This April I had the opportunity to speak about all things coronavirus with my favorite futurist, Jamais Cascio. Jamais is widely known for his work with the Institute for the Future in Palo Alto, and he has a bit of a reputation as the “dark futures” futurist—the one who isn’t afraid to dwell on how things could go wrong. It turned out he’d been thinking about many of the same questions, and that he’d been developing a new analytical framework for just such an occasion. It’s called BANI, and it offers new insights into our strange historical moment, when institutions left brittle by years of deliberate neglect now face shattering stresses.
In this episode, Jamais and and I tour the BANI concept and discuss how we could come out of pandemic with some new tools for confronting catastrophe.
Chapter Guide
00:00 Hub & Spoke Sonic ID
00:08Soonish Theme
00:22 Futurism in a Time of Pandemic
02:03 Introducing Jamais Cascio
04:12 Explaining VUCA
08:32 Meet BANI
10:43 How BANI Fits Our Moment. Part I: Brittleness in the Pandemic
13:48 Part II: Anxiety
14:17 Part III: Nonlinearity
15:10 Part IV: Incomprehensibility
16:01 Pandemics as Wild Cards
18:48 Planning for Pandemics
19:56 The War Against Expertise
21:44 Responding to Brittleness and Anxiety
23:50 Responding to Nonlinearity
26:03 Responding to Incomprehensibility
27:46 Paths Forward: Thinking More Like Futurists
30:30 Muddling Through
32:36 End Credits, Acknowledgements, and Hub & Spoke Promos
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