Press the Issue - Screen Readers and Beyond: How Web Accessibility Makes Lives Better

Screen Readers and Beyond: How Web Accessibility Makes Lives Better

07/13/22 • 32 min

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It is the duty of those who build with the internet to ensure accessibility. But what does that all mean, beyond completing a set of checklists? In this episode, Devin Egger and Teron Bullock connect to discuss the realities and challenges of web accessibility.

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Press the Issue is a production of MasterWP. It was produced by Allie Nimmons. It was hosted and edited by Monet Davenport and mixed and mastered by Teron Bullock. Please visit masterwp.com/presstheissue to find more episodes. Subscribe to our newsletter for more WordPress news at masterwp.com.

Episode Transcript:

Monet Davenport: It is the duty of those who build with the internet to ensure accessibility, but what does that all mean beyond completing a set of checklists? In this episode, Devin Egger and Teron Bullock connect to discuss the realities and challenges of web accessibility. Teron Bullock: How you doing today, Devin? Devin Egger: I'm doing good, Teron. How are you? Teron Bullock: I'm doing excellent. I know we have an exciting episode today. We're going to talk about web accessibilities and we're going to deal with it from the perspective of the end user. Devin Egger: Yeah. I was really excited when I started this article and presented this idea. As a developer, we're both developers, I'm sure you as well as I have read lots of articles on how to make websites accessible, and they always are tackling it from a very technical mindset and this is what you do in the code to make things accessible. And I feel so much that when you do that, yeah, we nerd out on it and we like that. We're like, "Okay. Yeah, cool." But then your project managers and your content writers and your designers then, they just tune out. You know? Teron Bullock: Right. Devin Egger: And I think that it's a conversation for everyone to have. And so I think by taking a step back and looking at web accessibility from a non-technical perspective, we can gain a lot and we can really look at it from a personal standpoint, because at the end of the day, we're doing this for people. Teron Bullock: So hearing you speak about the end user, it makes me think, why did the end user become the focus for you? Devin Egger: That's a good question. I mean, it kind of started off way back when I was a kid, before the web was even really a thing. I grew up with my grandma, one of my grandmas was blind, and so there was all these braille books around the house. So she knew how to read braille. I kind of started learning how to read braille when I was a kid, but that's not something that ever really materialized anything. But I'd always kind of thought in the back of my mind what would this be like if you couldn't see right. Just kind of fast forwarding several years, decades later, being a web developer, the whole idea of accessibility first came to mind. I think as a lot of web developers do, I had a client that was afraid of getting sued. So they're saying, "Hey, there's all these lawsuits going on. And people are getting sued for their website not being accessible. I don't really even understand what this means. But either way, we need you to make our website accessible." Teron Bullock: Right. Devin Egger: And so to be completely honest, I really didn't know what that meant either. And so when I initially started getting diving into it and doing research about what accessibility was as it relates to websites, I always like to look at the history of things, so looking at the history of web accessibility stems back to the Americans with Disabilities Act. It started with people busting curbs, people taking sledge hammers and busting curbs so that people in wheelchairs could actually use the streets, could get over the curbs. Devin Egger: Knowing that that kind of was the start of it really brought a personal aspect to it for me. There's a lot of videos out there that will share what the experience is like using websites, for example, if you're blind. And that's kind of the big one that comes to mind all the time, it's most easy for us to think about, "Well, if I just close my eyes and then I can't see the website," and so you can kind of just imagine how difficult it would be to use the website. But then think about some of that's been amputated or that has cerebral palsy. See people that I didn't even think about like, "Oh, what if you couldn't use a keyboard or mouse?" Teron Bullo...

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Episode Transcript:

Previous Episode

The WordPress Mass Exodus

Conversation has been ramping up about who WordPress is for, and who it leaves out. Community members are speaking up about why they are choosing to abandon the CMS for other systems. In this episode, Brian Coords talks to Nyasha Green about how the WordPress market disparity is challenging, but not dismantling, user loyalty.

This podcast was sponsored by LearnDash. Your expertise makes you money doing what you do. Now let it make you money teaching what you do. Create a course with LearnDash. Visit LearnDash.com.

Episode Transcript:

Monet Davenport: Welcome to Press the Issue, a podcast for Master WP, your source for industry insights for WordPress professionals. Get show notes, transcripts, and more information about the show at masterwp.com/presstheissue. Conversation has been ramping up about who WordPress is for and who it leaves out. Community members are speaking up about why they are choosing to abandon the CMS for other systems. In this episode, Brian Coords talks to Nyasha Green about how the WordPress market disparity is challenging, but not dismantling, user loyalty. Nyasha Green: Hey, Brian, how are you doing today? Brian Coords: Good. How are you doing? Nyasha Green: Doing well, doing well. It's almost Friday, so very happy. But I'm very excited to talk with you today. About one of your articles. You wrote one about the WordPress exodus and it's called My So-Called WordPress Mass Exodus. Really loved this article. Really, really, really in tune with what's going on with Twitter and other social media with people talking about how they want to leave. Can you talk a little bit more about why you wrote the article? Brian Coords: Yeah. So when I started writing this article, there were a lot of tweet threads going viral of people saying, "I'm done with WordPress because I'm trying to do X and it's not working for me. And I'm out of here." And so there was this constant stream of just different examples of it. And part of me feels like when things are happening on Twitter, it's not real life. And it's always the extremes that you see. It's always the crazy versions of things that you see. And so I wanted to comment on that. But also I think there is some justifiable complaints, or not even complaints. But just concerns people have. And we're always wanting to think critically about WordPress and where the ecosystem is going. So that was what stuck out to me. Brian Coords: The other piece of it is that I live in California and everyone in California knows that there's a constant conversation about people leaving. Whether it's like famous rich people like Elon Musk or Joe Rogan or whatever. Just, I mean, people I know who are constantly getting out of California to move to Texas or Idaho where the rent is a little cheaper or they can have a little more room or whatever it is. So it's one of those things where it's a big conversation, but it also like doesn't affect 99% of your real day to day life. So I just thought it would be fun to bring those two things together. Nyasha Green: Well, I love the comparison between a WordPress exodus and a California one. Because I am newer to WordPress than a lot of other people in the community. And I don't see any big things with the new changes that's making me want to leave. And I also am a big fan of California and I really want to move there. So are we the ones that are just not in our right minds? What do you think? Brian Coords: I love California. I've lived in a bunch of different parts of it because California it's so different. There's so many like different pieces of it. And that actually is like a good metaphor for WordPress where like living in the Bay Area of California is nowhere the same as living in San Diego or living in the inland desert or there's these crazy backwards parts of far Northern California that don't even call themselves California. They have like a different name for themselves and a different flag. So there's just so many... That's a whole other topic. There's just so many different versions of it. And WordPress is the same way. But at the same time, it's beautiful and there's a reason so many people want to live here. And so I think the comparison to WordPress maybe is pretty apt. Nyasha Green: Yeah, I agree. So we're talking about a lot of complaints and people talking about they want to leave. Do you think WordPress is stagnant? Brian Coords: Yeah. So that was the first collection of things that I had seen. There was a lot of people who just feel li...

Next Episode

Toxic Scorekeeping: The case against ‘Five for the Future.’

Recently, the WordPress community has been buzzing with discussion around Five for the Future and the balances of contributing. In this episode of Press the Issue, Rob Howard and Allie Nimmons take a deep dive into the topic and discuss the degree to which Five for the Future serves it's intended purpose.

This podcast was sponsored by LearnDash. Your expertise makes you money doing what you do. Now let it make you money teaching what you do. Create a course with LearnDash. Visit LearnDash.com.

Episode Transcript:

Monet Davenport: Welcome to Press the Issue, a podcast for MasterWP, your source for industry insights for WordPress professionals. Get show notes, transcripts and more information about the show at Masterwp.com/presstheissue. Recently, the WordPress community has been buzzing with discussion around Five for the Future and the balances of contributing. In this episode of Press the Issue, Rob Howard and Allie Nimmons take a deep dive into the topic and discuss the degree to which Five for the Future serves its intended purpose.

Rob Howard: Hey Allie, how are you today?

Allie Nimmons: I'm great. How are you, Rob?

Rob Howard: Excellent. It is great to talk to you as always.

Allie Nimmons: Same, I'm really excited. I wanted to talk to you today about your conversation, well, your post that I think has started a larger conversation about Five for the Future and the toxicity of keeping score of WordPress contributing, something that I'm passionate about and curious about as well. So yeah, I had a couple of questions for you.

Rob Howard: That sounds great. Fire away.

Allie Nimmons: So one of the huge things that launched us into this conversation was the fact that Josepha who is the Executive Director of the WordPress open-source project, seems to say and think one thing about Five for the Future. That it's this aspirational thing that people should use to help them begin contributing. And Matt Mullenweg stance as the leader of WordPress, the owner of Automattic and all these things, seems to think something different. Given that there's this disparity right now that exists between the two leaders that we look to, what do you think that, that says overall about the gap between WordPress, the product and WordPress, the Foundation?

Rob Howard: Yeah, that's a great question. I think where I would start is that I'm not necessarily confident that we 100% know what Matt's public position is on this. Because what we are seeing is Josepha is taking a public position that it is an aspirational recommendation. I think Matt would publicly agree with that and I'm sure has many times when asked directly. But then we had this issue or Twitter storm or whatever you want to call it around the question of, does GoDaddy contribute enough to the WordPress open-source projects? Now there's a lot to dig into there, GoDaddy as a competitor of Automattic, which is the for-profit company that Matt Mullenweg owns and Josepha is employed by. So there's a lot to unpack there, but I think what a lot of community members, including myself took away from that episode was that, yes, Five for the Future is presented as aspirational, but also people are watching and keeping track and that can be used against a company who someone wants to present negative information about.

Rob Howard: So I don't know exactly what the motivation was, I know Matt has deleted and apologized for a lot of the statements that he made around GoDaddy but I also think that he still is concerned about people not contributing enough. And he talks about the free rider problem from an economic standpoint and saying, who should be pitching in and how much should they be pitching in to this thing that is a public good? So I think where we end up with a disconnect is, we have two people who are authority figures, it is unclear what their interplay is on this issue, who is ultimately the decision maker or who is the person who is conveying the actual position or the actual rule.

Rob Howard: I mean, I think it makes sense for us to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and say, "We all do want it to be an aspirational goal," which I think would be the healthiest approach. The flip side of that is that sometimes actions speak louder than words and if you say it's aspirational, but then you go after a company who is contributing half a percent instead of four and a half percent or whatever that is, my personal reaction to that was,...