Naming is hard, but have you tried working with people? with Guy Segal — #15
04/28/25 • 65 min
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Guy Segal joins Elyse to unpack the messy, complicated world of... people. Guy shares practical strategies from his experience at Thomson Reuters, including the powerful "pre-mortem" exercise he used to rebuild trust and alignment for the design system. They get vulnerable and unpack why (as cliche as it sounds!) genuine listening, storytelling, learning to give and receive feedback, and actively engaging with product teams, is so much more impactful than relying solely on processes or artifacts. Plus, Guy shares why he hated it at first when product teams started using the name of the design system.
Links & References
- Guy Segal on LinkedIn
- Guy's talk at BeMore Festival on feedback, Working with Humans: Resolving Conflicts with Empathy
- Guy's talk Mastering the Painless Design Critique
- Guy on the Knapsack Design Systems Podcast
- Guy's podcast, Design Downtime, celebrating the joys of living a balanced creative life outside the pixels and wireframes
- Brad Frost's article Choosing a Name for your Design System
💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!
🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers.
📲 Text the show your thoughts!
Guy Segal joins Elyse to unpack the messy, complicated world of... people. Guy shares practical strategies from his experience at Thomson Reuters, including the powerful "pre-mortem" exercise he used to rebuild trust and alignment for the design system. They get vulnerable and unpack why (as cliche as it sounds!) genuine listening, storytelling, learning to give and receive feedback, and actively engaging with product teams, is so much more impactful than relying solely on processes or artifacts. Plus, Guy shares why he hated it at first when product teams started using the name of the design system.
Links & References
- Guy Segal on LinkedIn
- Guy's talk at BeMore Festival on feedback, Working with Humans: Resolving Conflicts with Empathy
- Guy's talk Mastering the Painless Design Critique
- Guy on the Knapsack Design Systems Podcast
- Guy's podcast, Design Downtime, celebrating the joys of living a balanced creative life outside the pixels and wireframes
- Brad Frost's article Choosing a Name for your Design System
💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!
🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers.
Previous Episode
The Four Quadrants of Design System Impact, with Ben Callahan — #14
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Ben Callahan joins Elyse for a fun conversation on creating impact with design systems. Ben shares insights from his consulting experience, discussing common pitfalls like organizations expecting a design system without adequately supporting their teams. They break down the "Four Quadrants of Design System Impact" framework, which breaks down tactical versus strategic work, helping teams avoid pitfalls like endless component creation. Plus, hear Ben’s predictions for the future of design systems
Links & References
- Ben Callahan on LinkedIn
- The Question
- Redwoods, Ben's community supporting design system practitioners
- Ben's post on The Four Quadrants and Why you’re NOT seeing Holistic Impact from your Design System
- Ben's overview of our episode of The Question
- Cam Worboy's Broken Promises of Design Systems talk at Config 2024 (and the worst screen made with DS components)
- Kotter's Leading Change book
💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!
🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers.
Next Episode
But "design systems as infrastructure" is boring, with Sam Anderson — #16
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Y’all, I’ll be honest. Some days, I’m scared and nervous and uncomfortable with AI’s emergence, and implications, too. But I am also curiously optimistic, and more importantly — I don’t want to use any platform I have to spread even more fear and discontent and drama. So today you’re getting a dose of two things that I love: infrastructure and optimism.
Drawing from his experience leading design systems at three very large orgs, Sam Anderson from Intuit shares how framing design systems as infrastructure can help them be recognized as essential to business success. He shares his vision for the importance of patterns as the next frontier of systems work, particularly in a rapidly changing tech landscape accelerated by AI, and we talk about what leadership conversations look like. Plus, Sam drops a spicy take that he believes AI won’t destroy design system jobs but make us even more valuable.
Links & References
- Sam Anderson on LinkedIn
- Sam's article Design Systems are Infrastructure: The evolution of design systems in the age of AI
- Nate Baldwin's Leonardo and Proportio
💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!
🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28
Get your ticket at intodesignsystems.com/onthemeInto Design Systems is back with their annual virtual conference, May 28-30, 2025. Get your ticket now for three days of practical, hands on sessions showing the what, why, and how of design systems. This year, the conference is focused on developer handoff, accessibility, multi brand theming, and governance. You'll get hands on knowledge you can put to use at work immediately, files and resources to take away, and hear from very well known industry speakers.
On Theme: Design Systems in Depth - Naming is hard, but have you tried working with people? with Guy Segal — #15
Transcript
Humans haven't really changed, even if the tools have. There's something very, very basic, in the sense that people want to be heard. People want to feel that you hear them. And a lot of the times when you have that friction between people, or like, someone really doesn't want to use your design system, it's mostly because they think you don't really care about their problems. And just asking them, what can I do that would help you? What problems
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