Ministering to Those Who Seem Hopeless | An Interview with Brent Daines and Jason Coombs

05/31/23 • 68 min

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This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in December 2019. Jason Coombs is a Utah native and lives in the Boise, Idaho, area with his wife and 7-year-old twins. They own a chain of substance use disorder treatment centers called Brick House Recovery. Kurt previously interviewed Jason as part of the Liberating Saints Virtual Conference, and for the upcoming Recovering Saints Virtual Conference. Brent Daines was Jason’s bishop from 2006 to 2011. Brent now serves as a stake president, lives in Centerville, Utah, and is the father of seven incredible children and 12 beautiful grandchildren. He is currently the CEO of RLL Insurance and loves to flyfish, ski, and golf in his spare time. Kurt Francom, Brent Daines, Jason Coombs Highlights 06:30 Jason’s story started with an auto accident 07:45 Jason is the grandson of President James E. Faust, and at the time attended church weekly but wasn’t living close to the Spirit. Went to lunch with a friend from work who connected him to a doctor prescribing opioids 12:30 Ignored the warnings in his head but justified his actions and saw the doctor 16:00 The physician was indicted for fraud five months later, sending 139 addicted patients to the street for drugs 22:00 Didn’t believe he had a problem, but had merely been “found out”; marriage failed and was homeless and living in a very dark place 24:30 Incarcerated and in a drug court program but couldn’t stop using 25:25 Brent received a phone call from Jason’s ex-wife and went to see him in jail 28:15 Brent had been prepared by his experience with his brother and was able to see Jason as Christ sees him 32:10 There will be a few people who are greatly affected by you during your time serving as a church leader 36:00 Called President Faust at Jason’s request and learned more about coming to this from a place of love 38:30 Weekly visits from Brent led to hope for Jason, but he was still not ready to commit to change for four years after being released from jail. Brent would still appear at critical points in Jason’s life. 42:00 Brent could still feel Heavenly Father’s love for Jason, even though it seemed his actions were not helping 44:10 Jason made the decision to change after his son was born and in intensive care, but still went through rehab five times before he was able to complete the 12 steps and fully change 47:45 Made a final confession to Bishop Daines, in spite of his fears about judgment and excommunication 50:30 Immersed himself in friendship with others who were actively recovering, made good decisions, and changed his perspective on church discipline; Brent was his advocate through all of this 55:50 The challenge of self-forgiveness and recognizing Jesus Christ as your personal Savior Links Unhooked: How to Help an Addicted Loved One Recover, by Jason Coombs Brick House Recovery Recovering Saints Virtual Conference Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Listen on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library, including the Liberating Saints Conference The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, DeAnna Murphy, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, Ganel-Lyn Condie, and many more in over 500 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership,

Previous Episode

“I’m Not the Gatekeeper, I’m the Welcoming Committee” | An Interview with Kurt Brown

Kurt Brown hails from Sacramento, California, where his family joined the Church when he was young. He played two years of college basketball, studied Finance and Economics at Brigham Young University, and dropped out senior year to go to Wall Street, where he was a trader on the New York Stock Exchange and the co-manager of an investment fund for 13 years. He started his own firm, TownSquare Capital, in 2018 and sold it to a larger, national firm (Orion) in 2022. In the Church, his callings have included single adult ward bishop, Young Men president, scoutmaster, Gospel Doctrine teacher, elders quorum president, and ward clerk. He served in the Canada Halifax mission. Kurt and his wife, Katie, have been married 16 years and have four children: one biological son, an adopted daughter, and two special-needs foster children they adopted. Kurt and Katie have been called to serve as the mission leaders of the Washington Tacoma Mission starting July 2023. Highlights 03:40 Introduction to Kurt Brown, his childhood, his family joining the church, and his mission. 12:30 Working at wall street, going to college, and playing basketball. 15:20 Slipping away from the church for a time. Kurt’s faith journey and ending up back in Utah. 19:00 Coming back to Utah, getting his life back in order, got married at 35. 21:30 Kurt helped create a mid-singles ward in Provo, Utah and was the bishop of that ward. He talks about what he did to start the ward. 30:00 Establishing positive culture at church. They did this by creating a space that felt like the savior was present. The first weeks they had 120 people and within 5 months they had 500 people attending. 33:30 The experience that people need at church is to feel warm and welcomed. Every Sunday after sacrament meeting they would break into visitors meeting. Kurt shares what they would share with people in those meetings. 36:30 From the very first visitor’s meeting they established the culture. Everyone got vulnerable, shared their stories. Every single meeting was focused on helping people feel hope and the holy ghost. 37:50 There is something powerful about sharing our stories. When hearing people’s stories we need to have as much compassion as the savior would. 40:00 You aren’t the gatekeeper. You are the welcoming committee. 41:30 In three years they never assigned a topic for sacrament meeting. 42:15 Kurt constantly invited people to come see him and unload their pain on him. 43:20 Kurt shares an experience with President Eyring. President Eyring taught that while we are a handbook heavy church, the handbook is not what we are doing. It’s about love, not a checklist from the handbook. 45:40 After serving as bishop, Kurt has been able to see people in a completely different way. He is no longer a harsh judge. 47:50 Creating a bishop’s office that is a place to unload pain and feel hope. 49:00 Too many bishops insert themselves too much in other people’s repentance process. You are not their parole office. You are their advocate. You help carry the baggage. 52:20 Helping people with repentance Setting the framework The people choose their own path to repentance, not the bishop Take the focus off the shame and shift it to creating better self worth 1:02:30 Letting people choose their own path to repentance. What’s meaningful and personal to people is different and that’s why a repentance checklist from the bishop isn’t going to work for everyone. They have to work with the Spirit to find out what they need to do to repent. 1:05:00 Disciplinary council is the last resort. We have to lean to the side of compassion and listen to the Spirit. 1:08:45 Getting in trouble as bishop because he refused to kick anyone out of the ward just because they didn’t live in the boundaries. He felt strongly about protecting ‘the one’ and giving them a home. 1:12:20 Getting called as mission president

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“He Will Magnify Your Efforts” | An Interview with Bonnie Oscarson

Bonnie Oscarson was born in Salt Lake City, Utah but her family moved and lived in several different states as she was growing up. She attended Brigham Young University and majored in commercial art. Bonnie met her husband, Paul Oscarson, when her family lived in St. Louis, Missouri. They are the parents of seven children and have 29 fascinating grandchildren. Paul and Bonnie served as mission president and companion in the Sweden Gothenburg Mission as a young couple and then returned to Sweden in 2009 to serve as president and matron of the Stockholm Sweden Temple. She finally finished her bachelor’s degree from BYU in British and American Literature 41 years after she first began. (She is glad she did it but doesn’t recommend that educational plan.) Bonnie was called to serve as the Young Women general president in April 2013 and released in April 2018. Since her release she is enjoying spending time with those grandchildren and catching up on her reading. Bonnie and Paul recently moved to Provo where they serve as ordinance workers in the Provo Temple and as ecclesiastical leaders in the Provo Missionary Training Center. Highlights 02:15 Kurt introduces Bonnie Oscarson. 03:00 Bonnie talks about her upbringing and background. 8:45 Leadership opportunities. When Bonnie was 25 and her husband was 29 years old, they were called to serve as mission leaders in Sweden. 12:20 Stepping up to a big calling at a young age 18:30 Preparation for her calling as the general young women’s president 18:50 The Lord knows what's coming. Bonnie talks about how leadership callings and going back to school prepared her for what was to come. 23:10 Being called as matron to the Stockholm temple 25:40 Her biggest takeaway from serving at the temple was, “To see the hand of the Lord so clearly.” The daily miracles. 27:30 Getting called to be the general young women's president and choosing counselors 33:00 Feeling inadequate in her new calling and how God pulled her through 34:20 Starting out as the Young Women general president. Do I change things? 40:00 Speaking in conference isn’t hard. Writing the talk is hard. 43:20 What Bonnie learned in her time traveling and visiting other places 45:00 Bonnie’s advice to a new Young Women presidency. Learn how to follow the Spirit. 48:20 Issues and things they focused on when Bonnie was Young Women general president. 54:00 Speaking up in ward council; Women struggling to feel heard in councils 58:15 What Bonnie’s up to today: Serving in the temple and MTC. 59:10 Bonnie’s final thoughts on leadership Links Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Listen on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, DeAnna Murphy, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, Ganel-Lyn Condie, and many more in over 500 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.