Leading Saints Podcast

This is Part 2 of a 2-part conversation. Listen to Part 1 here. Katherine Herrmann lists all things Apple, new wave/alternative music, and fantasy/science fiction among her fandoms. She works as a principal software engineer/architect for a video streaming company, and recently published TransLucent: How I put off my natural man and found a spiritual woman. At church, she has served as secretary for deacons, teachers, and priests quorums, as a Sunday School and elders quorum teacher, elders quorum secretary, ward executive secretary, newsletter editor, and assistant ward clerk—historian. She has also hugged a lot of people at general conference, and bore her testimony in over 40 wards in three years. Highlights 00:20 The argument many are having is whether or not to let young teens transition and have transition surgery. Katherine shares some useful perspectives. 07:45 Katherine’s teenage years, pressure to go on a mission, and being suicidal. 13:30 Does transition help suicide ideation? Some things that help suicide ideation are affirming who people are and using their preferred pronouns. 15:45 Being shunned for being transgender. How can we help transgender individuals? What can leaders do? 20:15 The actual Church handbook and Church policies allow transgender to attend all meetings that they identify with. However, a lot of local leaders are biased and won’t allow them to go. 24:30 Advice for leaders on letting transgender individuals go to Relief Society or priesthood meetings. Many individuals have felt uncomfortable with her going to Eelief Society so she gets kicked out to make others comfortable. 29:20 How would Jesus treat a transgender individual? Where would He let them worship? 33:30 Making tough decisions as a leader. You are never going to make everyone happy. Katherine wasn’t able to have a calling because people would object to it. It was another way she felt rejected. 37:20 People say that being transgender is a trial. The difference is that transgender people don’t have any support from church leaders, ministering sisters, home teachers, or callings. There is no one to lean on in the trials. 39:30 Is being transgender a mental illness and in the after life it will be worked out? 44:30 Our genders are eternal. But how does that relate to our body? Katherine shares a real-world example of genetic issues that occur. 55:00 For the majority of people your eternal gender is the gender that you were assigned at birth but what about transgender individuals? Is it possible that their spirit and body are different genders? 1:04:15 Katherine goes into dating her former wife, getting married, having seven kids, and church callings. 1:11:30 Katherine stands outside general conference with a sign that says, “Hug a transgender Latter-day Saint.” 1:14:30 President Oaks is Katherine’s favorite apostle. 1:17:45 Where does affirming a transgender individual become condoning? What are the lines that we are condoning? 1:29:20 Katherine talks about her book. She wants people to understand her life experiences and what she has gone through as a transgender individual. Links Listen to Part 1 TransLucent: How I put off my natural man and discovered a spiritual woman Facebook page: TransLucent North Star Saints Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Watch on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson,

Dr. Derwin L. Gray and his wife Vicki Gray are the co-founders of Transformation Church, just outside of Charlotte, North Carolina, where he serves as Lead Pastor. They met at Brigham Young University where he played football and she threw the javelin on the track team. They have two adult children. After graduating from BYU, Pastor Derwin played professional football in the NFL—five years with the Indianapolis Colts and one year with the Carolina Panthers. During that time, he and Vicki began their journey with Christ. Pastor Derwin went on to graduate magna cum laude from Southern Evangelical Seminary with a Master of Divinity degree with a concentration in Apologetics, and was mentored by renowned theologian and philosopher, Dr. Norman Geisler. He was later awarded an honorary doctorate from Southern Evangelical Seminary, and he received his Doctor of Ministry in the New Testament in Context at Northern Seminary under Dr. Scot McKnight. Pastor Derwin speaks at conferences nationwide and is the author of several books, including How to Heal Our Racial Divide: What the Bible Says, and What the First Century Christians Knew about Racial Reconciliation. Highlights 02:00 Kurt introduces Pastor Derwin Gray. 03:30 What do you do as a pastor? It’s not a job. It’s a calling. 06:00 How he came to play with BYU football and in the NFL. The spiritual awakening that led Derwin to become a pastor. 13:00 Taking religious courses at BYU without much of a religious background. Derwin shares some of the experiences that he had in his classes. 16:30 Being at BYU taught Derwin to learn the story of other people that you love. It taught him a moral framework and what it means to take care of your own. 19:10 Leadership from Coach Edwards He surrounded himself with good coaches He delegated to them He empowered his staff He built strong relationships 22:30 Delegation means finding and equipping the right people to implement the vision and championing them to do it. 23:30 Tips for delegation You are clear on what you are asking them to do You are prepared to prepare them to do what you are asking them to do Celebrate them for what they do 26:45 Motivating the volunteers and people that are serving. Lovingly pushing people towards action. 32:15 The dynamic between the congregation and a pastor. They have a big staff to care for and shepherd their people. The pastor can’t do it alone. 34:40 The biggest things that Derwin sees that his congregation is struggling with: anxiety, depression, fatigue, comparison, trauma. 37:15 I can’t carry people’s hurts; I have to carry them to Jesus. Learning to have compassion without getting compassion fatigue. 39:40 Crash course on giving a sermon on Jesus. It’s not about information, it’s about transformation. 45:00 Derwin shares his insights on sharing a testimony. Many in our church testify that Joseph Smith is a prophet and that the Church is true but don’t talk about how Jesus has changed their lives. 46:00 The role of Derwin’s wife, Vicki, in the ministry. Women have a vital ministry role. 48:00 To be a bishop or pastor doesn’t mean telling people what to do. Their job is to serve the staff and congregation. 49:30 A lot of times we get our leadership style from culture and not from Christ. 52:40 Pastor Derwin shares his final thoughts and testimony on leadership. Links derwinlgray.com Books by Pastor Derwin Gray Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Watch on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H.

Katherine Herrmann lists all things Apple, new wave/alternative music, and fantasy/science fiction among her fandoms. She works as a principal software engineer/architect for a video streaming company, and recently published TransLucent: How I put off my natural man and found a spiritual woman. At church, she has served as secretary for deacons, teachers, and priests quorums, as a Sunday School and elders quorum teacher, elders quorum secretary, ward executive secretary, newsletter editor, and assistant ward clerk—historian. She has also hugged a lot of people at general conference, and bore her testimony in over 40 wards in three years. This is Part 1 of a 2-part conversation. Listen to Part 2 here. Highlights 02:00 Kurt introduces the topic of transgenderism and what people can expect from this podcast episode. 05:30 Katherine is introduced and she shares her experience with church leaders. 09:15 Katherine shares her background and the beginning of her story. She was born biologically male but since she was a young child she felt female. 14:10 What is gender dysphoria? Katherine describes how it has felt for her. 18:15 Katherine’s teenage years. Always an outsider and having different interests. 22:30 Transgender youth and transition surgeries. 24:50 Is your child really transgender? Based on her personal research and experience, Katherine believes there is a huge difference between kids that come out as transgender when they are 3-4 years old and kids that come out between 10-12 years old. Links Listen to Part 2 TransLucent: How I put off my natural man and discovered a spiritual woman Facebook page: TransLucent North Star Saints Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Watch on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, DeAnna Murphy, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, Ganel-Lyn Condie, and many more in over 600 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Kurt Brown hails from Sacramento, California, where his family joined the Church when he was young. He played two years of college basketball, studied Finance and Economics at Brigham Young University, and dropped out senior year to go to Wall Street, where he was a trader on the New York Stock Exchange and the co-manager of an investment fund for 13 years. He started his own firm, TownSquare Capital, in 2018 and sold it to a larger, national firm (Orion) in 2022. In the Church, his callings have included single adult ward bishop, Young Men president, scoutmaster, Gospel Doctrine teacher, elders quorum president, and ward clerk. He served in the Canada Halifax mission. Kurt and his wife, Katie, have been married 16 years and have four children: one biological son, an adopted daughter, and two special-needs foster children they adopted. Kurt and Katie have been called to serve as the mission leaders of the Washington Tacoma Mission starting July 2023. Highlights 03:40 Introduction to Kurt Brown, his childhood, his family joining the church, and his mission. 12:30 Working at wall street, going to college, and playing basketball. 15:20 Slipping away from the church for a time. Kurt’s faith journey and ending up back in Utah. 19:00 Coming back to Utah, getting his life back in order, got married at 35. 21:30 Kurt helped create a mid-singles ward in Provo, Utah and was the bishop of that ward. He talks about what he did to start the ward. 30:00 Establishing positive culture at church. They did this by creating a space that felt like the savior was present. The first weeks they had 120 people and within 5 months they had 500 people attending. 33:30 The experience that people need at church is to feel warm and welcomed. Every Sunday after sacrament meeting they would break into visitors meeting. Kurt shares what they would share with people in those meetings. 36:30 From the very first visitor’s meeting they established the culture. Everyone got vulnerable, shared their stories. Every single meeting was focused on helping people feel hope and the holy ghost. 37:50 There is something powerful about sharing our stories. When hearing people’s stories we need to have as much compassion as the savior would. 40:00 You aren’t the gatekeeper. You are the welcoming committee. 41:30 In three years they never assigned a topic for sacrament meeting. 42:15 Kurt constantly invited people to come see him and unload their pain on him. 43:20 Kurt shares an experience with President Eyring. President Eyring taught that while we are a handbook heavy church, the handbook is not what we are doing. It’s about love, not a checklist from the handbook. 45:40 After serving as bishop, Kurt has been able to see people in a completely different way. He is no longer a harsh judge. 47:50 Creating a bishop’s office that is a place to unload pain and feel hope. 49:00 Too many bishops insert themselves too much in other people’s repentance process. You are not their parole office. You are their advocate. You help carry the baggage. 52:20 Helping people with repentance Setting the framework The people choose their own path to repentance, not the bishop Take the focus off the shame and shift it to creating better self worth 1:02:30 Letting people choose their own path to repentance. What’s meaningful and personal to people is different and that’s why a repentance checklist from the bishop isn’t going to work for everyone. They have to work with the Spirit to find out what they need to do to repent. 1:05:00 Disciplinary council is the last resort. We have to lean to the side of compassion and listen to the Spirit. 1:08:45 Getting in trouble as bishop because he refused to kick anyone out of the ward just because they didn’t live in the boundaries. He felt strongly about protecting ‘the one’ and giving them a home. 1:12:20 Getting called as mission president

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in December 2019. Jason Coombs is a Utah native and lives in the Boise, Idaho, area with his wife and 7-year-old twins. They own a chain of substance use disorder treatment centers called Brick House Recovery. Kurt previously interviewed Jason as part of the Liberating Saints Virtual Conference, and for the upcoming Recovering Saints Virtual Conference. Brent Daines was Jason’s bishop from 2006 to 2011. Brent now serves as a stake president, lives in Centerville, Utah, and is the father of seven incredible children and 12 beautiful grandchildren. He is currently the CEO of RLL Insurance and loves to flyfish, ski, and golf in his spare time. Kurt Francom, Brent Daines, Jason Coombs Highlights 06:30 Jason’s story started with an auto accident 07:45 Jason is the grandson of President James E. Faust, and at the time attended church weekly but wasn’t living close to the Spirit. Went to lunch with a friend from work who connected him to a doctor prescribing opioids 12:30 Ignored the warnings in his head but justified his actions and saw the doctor 16:00 The physician was indicted for fraud five months later, sending 139 addicted patients to the street for drugs 22:00 Didn’t believe he had a problem, but had merely been “found out”; marriage failed and was homeless and living in a very dark place 24:30 Incarcerated and in a drug court program but couldn’t stop using 25:25 Brent received a phone call from Jason’s ex-wife and went to see him in jail 28:15 Brent had been prepared by his experience with his brother and was able to see Jason as Christ sees him 32:10 There will be a few people who are greatly affected by you during your time serving as a church leader 36:00 Called President Faust at Jason’s request and learned more about coming to this from a place of love 38:30 Weekly visits from Brent led to hope for Jason, but he was still not ready to commit to change for four years after being released from jail. Brent would still appear at critical points in Jason’s life. 42:00 Brent could still feel Heavenly Father’s love for Jason, even though it seemed his actions were not helping 44:10 Jason made the decision to change after his son was born and in intensive care, but still went through rehab five times before he was able to complete the 12 steps and fully change 47:45 Made a final confession to Bishop Daines, in spite of his fears about judgment and excommunication 50:30 Immersed himself in friendship with others who were actively recovering, made good decisions, and changed his perspective on church discipline; Brent was his advocate through all of this 55:50 The challenge of self-forgiveness and recognizing Jesus Christ as your personal Savior Links Unhooked: How to Help an Addicted Loved One Recover, by Jason Coombs Brick House Recovery Recovering Saints Virtual Conference Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Listen on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library, including the Liberating Saints Conference The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, DeAnna Murphy, Michael Goodman, Richard Ostler, Ganel-Lyn Condie, and many more in over 500 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership,