
Lead & Follow
Sharna Fabiano
Lead & Follow offers a candid discussion of teamwork, collaboration, and professional development. Host Sharna Fabiano talks with educators, consultants, and professionals to explore the relational dance between leadership and followership, and how to become excellent in both roles.
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Top 10 Lead & Follow Episodes
Goodpods has curated a list of the 10 best Lead & Follow episodes, ranked by the number of listens and likes each episode have garnered from our listeners. If you are listening to Lead & Follow for the first time, there's no better place to start than with one of these standout episodes. If you are a fan of the show, vote for your favorite Lead & Follow episode by adding your comments to the episode page.

04/17/23 • 40 min
I speak with Dan Jenkins, Professor of Leadership & Organizational Studies at the University of Southern Maine about his collaborative work integrating specific methods for training followership into leadership programs, and tracking the impressive results!
Dan received his doctorate in Curriculum & Instruction with an emphasis in Higher Education Administration from the University of South Florida. He is co-author of The Role of Leadership Educators: Transforming Learning and has published more than 40 articles and book chapters on leadership education. As an award-winning international speaker and facilitator, Dan has engaged thousands of leadership educators, students, and professionals on topics such as leadership pedagogy, followership, and curriculum and course design. Additionally, Dan is a co-founder of the International Leadership Association’s Leadership Education Academy, Vice-Chair of the Collegiate Leadership Competition, Associate Editor of the Journal of Leadership Studies, and co-host of "The Leadership Educator Podcast".
“All the research that we have that points to what makes an effective team comes back to trust and communication.”
“What we’ve learned is that students, since they’ve been in both the leader and the follower role, they have a totally different context for what their leader needs when they’re NOT in the leader role, and vice versa.”
“We’ve noticed that follower identification has increased their skill capacity as a team member.”
Episode References
Global Followership Conference
www.followershipconference.com
The Leadership Educator Podcast
theleadershipeducator.podbean.com
Collegiate Leadership Competition
www.collegiateleader.org
New Directions in Student Leadership, Volume 2020, Issue 167
Special Issue: Followership Education
Leadership is Half the Story by Marc Hurwitz and Samantha Hurwitz
Kolb’s Experiential Learning Model
The Role of Leadership Educators: Transforming Learning
Leadership and Followership Tango Video
The Courageous Follower by Ira Chaleff
ILA Leadership Education Academy
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Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com
Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/
Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Quick Tips: Visual Focus
Lead & Follow
05/21/24 • 3 min
Your lead and follow coaching tip for today is Visual focus.
In most Western contexts, eye contact signals to the other person that you are paying attention to them. A lack of eye contact can signal the opposite: disconnection, dismissal, or disinterest. Just think about the last time you tried to share information or ask a question of someone who was looking at their screen, at their phone, or out the window. You may have had to repeat yourself because they literally didn’t hear you.
On stage, the quickest way to move the audience’s focus from one place to another is for the performers to deliberately look in the new direction.
The exception to this guideline of course is when you’re both looking at the same thing and talking about that thing, a power point slide, a white board, or maybe a beautiful sunset.
In a physical sense, our thoughts tend to follow our visual gaze. That doesn’t mean you can’t look at someone and be thinking about the laundry or some urgent deadline, but it’s harder.
In general, wherever you look, that’s what you’ll be thinking about. This is part of how the scrolling feature on your phone traps your thoughts – by trapping your eyes.
So the tip this week is to look at the person you are speaking to or listening to.
It sounds simple, but it can feel uncomfortable if you are not used to it, or if you have a challenging history with the other person, or if you’re just feeling distracted or rushed.
One way to help yourself focus visually is to remove distractions. Put your phone away, put down anything you’re carrying, and if you can, sit down in a chair facing the person. If you can’t do that, angle your body toward them as much as you can. Sitting actually lowers your heart rate and it’s a quick way to narrow your field of vision.
You can also tidy up your own space or your desk or your Zoom background so that it’s easier for other people to look at you. Here’s another Zoom tip that completely changed my life. Turn off self-view box, so that you cannot see yourself. Likewise, in shared physical spaces, remove any mirrors. Seeing yourself is incredibly distracting.
If you still have trouble maintaining visual focus, ask yourself, what are you feeling or thinking that’s making it hard? Are you self-conscious about your appearance? Do you need to clear the air with this particular person?
Address any internal discomfort over visual focus at a separate time, in a way that feels appropriate and meaningful to you. If you’re not sure how to do that, start with some private journaling.
Try this out, experiment, and let me know how it goes!
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Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com
Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/
Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Quick Tips: Focus Your Email
Lead & Follow
06/03/24 • 4 min
Your lead and follow coaching tip for today is Focus your email.
I recently received an auto-responder email message from a colleague that read, and I’m not kidding about this, QUOTE “I’m out of the office this week, and your message will be deleted. If you’d like a response, please re-send your message after next Monday when I return.” UNQUOTE
Your message will be deleted.
This is probably the most extreme example I’ve seen of email management, but I share it to illustrate the point. We are all drowning in an excessive flood of email. You probably receive hundreds of messages a week, maybe hundreds a day, and there’s no way you can read them all.
In fact, in addition to the latest spam blockers and content filters, there is still a certain amount of time and effort required to figure out what email you need to read, before you actually read any of it.
So, knowing this situation, you can make it easier for your coworkers to read and respond to your messages with a couple of guidelines. These won’t work in all situations, but they will cover you for the majority of everyday work exchanges.
First, whenever possible, follow the rule of one topic per message. This makes it easy for people to organize your message by category and especially by time sensitivity. If you ask someone for two pieces of information, one of which you need today and the other of which you need next week, that makes your message harder to organize and you’ll probably get either one or neither of your questions answered. If you send them separately, not only is each one shorter, which is almost always better, but the person will have an easier time mentally dropping them into the appropriate buckets, and responding to them in the appropriate time-frame.
Second, if you do have several related questions pertaining to the same project or the same deadline, use a numbered list so that your reader can more quickly and easily take in what you are asking. You’ll often get an itemized response in return, following your original list, which also makes it easier for you.
Third, whenever possible, keep your messages to five sentences or less, stating your purpose, your request, and any time constraints. If you have additional relevant reference material, attach them or list them below your main message, separated by an asterisk or some other obvious character. Too much text is overwhelming, and people will. not. read it, especially if it’s not necessary. There is definitely a skill to writing concisely, and it’s most definitely a valuable one that you want to have no matter what your work environment. I promise that once you start restricting yourself to five sentences, it will get easier and easier.
And finally, fourth, being crisp and focused does not mean being rude. It’s still important to be polite and positive even while you avoid unnecessary explanations or “filler” language. Remember to use the person’s name at the top of your message, and include a thank you at the end. Here’s a quick tip within a tip: include Thank you, or Thanks in your automatic signature.
Try this out, experiment, and let me know how it goes!
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Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com
Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/
Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Leadership, Followership and Emotional Intelligence (IWU Part 3) - Yolonda Tonette Sanders
Lead & Follow
03/27/23 • 36 min
I speak with Dr. Yolonda Tonette Sanders, who shares her recent dissertation research on connections between followers' emotional intelligence and their followership styles, and what this means for leaders in organizations of all kinds.
Dr. Sanders is an Ohio native, co-founder of Traction, an organizational change consulting company, and of the Faith and Fellowship Book Festival. She is also the author of six novels, and her hometown of Sandusky, Ohio attracts millions of visitors each year because of the Cedar Point amusement park!
Upon graduating from high school, Yolonda moved to Columbus, Ohio to attend Capital University where she earned a Bachelor of Arts in Criminology and another in Political Science. She continued her education at The Ohio State University, receiving a Master of Arts in Sociology. Yolonda used her education and relational skills to write, publish, teach in higher education, and serve in various leadership capacities, including that of CEO, board member, and program director. Most recently, she received a Doctor of Philosophy degree in Organizational Leadership from Indiana Wesleyan University. She enjoys spending time with loved ones and engaging in endeavors that enhance her personal and spiritual growth and that of others.
This episode is Part 3 of a 3-part series on Indiana Wesleyan, so please do go back and listen to Parts 1 and 2.
“If you look at the characteristics of ideal followers, they have characteristics of people with high emotional intelligence.”
"Organizations should do more to build followership and teach that it’s ok to speak up and ask questions."
"I do try to cultivate environments where people are not afraid to challenge me because I am not always right."
"We as leaders have to realize that sometimes other people have better ideas. We don’t have all the answers."
Episode References
Robert Kelley, Power of Followership
Ira Chaleff, The Courageous Follower
Daniel Goleman, Emotional Intelligence
Barbara Kellerman, Followership
Connect with Dr. Yolonda Tonette Sanders
Traction, an organizational change consulting company
Research Gate Scholarship Page
Amazon a
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Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com
Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/
Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

04/03/22 • 43 min
I talk with Pedro Portela, a complex systems thinking coach and a self-described network enthusiast living in Portugal. An engineer by training, Pedro is now a freelance consultant for peace building and conflict transformation. We explore how followership skills play a vital role in peace building initiatives as well as how understanding healthy leading and following dynamics can help us let go of the command-control paradigm so that we can move forward together in a world of complexity and uncertainty.
"When you’re dancing you’re practicing everything you need to be in the now."
“The relationship between lead and follow is out of balance in our world today.”
“How can we get our act together as a global civilization?”
“I think we tend to forget how much intention there is in our followership decision, and how much power we have by choosing to follow and reflecting on who is it that we want to follow.”
“We tend to be blocked in this idea that everyone needs to lead, when really everyone needs to be more in touch with what it is that they want to follow.”
Episode References
John Paul Lederach, The Moral Imagination: The Art and Soul of Building Peace
Connect with Pedro Portela
Podcast: It Takes Two to Tango
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pedro-portela-9a40423/
Medium: https://medium.com/@pportela
Flip University40% off the world's first online Followership course with code LEADFOLLOW40.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
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Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com
Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/
Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

11/19/23 • 27 min
David Elser, author of Doing the Chores, shares his concept of smart followership through personal stories of growing up on a small family farm in northwest Ohio. David is a learning and development professional based in Coldwater Lake, Michigan who has over 30 years of experience in the transportation industry. He works with employees at all levels, from essential front-line workers to executive leaders. David has a master's degree in organizational management and is a Certified Professional Coach.
“[Smart followership] is having the willingness and ability to enthusiastically and effectively provide support.”
“What if we brought into the organization smart followership skills training, what would that mean?”
"Sometimes its best to step back and let others come up with the solution."
Episode References
Shirtless Dancing Guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW8amMCVAJQ
Trust, Followership, and Leadership in Non-Profit Change Processes - Tom Klaus
https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/9340458-trust-followership-and-leadership-in-non-profit-change-processes-tom-klaus
Training Everyone in Both Leadership and Followership – Samantha Hurwitz
https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/13325495-training-everyone-in-both-leadership-and-followership-samantha-hurwitz
HR Perspective on Followership and Leadership Training - Julie Newman
https://leadfollow.buzzsprout.com/1735834/13364704-hr-perspective-on-followership-and-leadership-training-julie-newman
Connect with David Elser
Doing the Chores Website
https://doingthechores.com
Doing the Chores Book (adults)
https://a.co/d/esqqdoS
Doing the Chores Book (kids)
https://a.co/d/9QvryVq
Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/FollowSmart
LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-r-elser-5a17655
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Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com
Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/
Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Quick Tips: Take Turns
Lead & Follow
05/14/24 • 4 min
Your lead and follow coaching tip for today is Take turns.
One summer I attended a large afternoon bbq, and a person I’d just met walked over and asked me about my work. Perfectly normal, right? But then he interrupted me before I could finish, and asked me another question. So, I started answering the new question, and then he interrupted again. Another question. Finally, I had to not answer at all and instead ask him a question just to break the pattern.
You might be able to imagine how irritating this rapid fire question asking can be, especially at a relaxing afternoon party, and also how little interest you would probably have in spending more time with that person in the future.
One reason interrupting is irritating is that it makes us feel that the other person isn’t listening. To feel connected, we need to be heard, whether we’re at a bbq or in a work meeting. When someone doesn’t feel heard, they instinctively pull away. They don’t want to talk or share or help or collaborate. Repeated interruption is basically a disconnection device.
Now, once in a while, if it’s really important and if it’s done calmly and for a good reason, interrupting someone is actually fine. It’s when we do it a lot and without clear purpose that it can be damaging to relationships.
So, as a proactive measure, the habit of taking turns can improve your relationships by preventing interruptions and increasing the chances that people around you feel heard and are therefore more comfortable and willing to connect with you.
Taking turns means that when someone else is speaking, wait until they are completely finished before responding or before asking another question.
If for some reason you need to interrupt, acknowledge that you are interrupting by saying something simple like, “Forgive me for interrupting but the wedding cake is being served right now, let’s go have some.” Or even, “I’m sorry to interrupt but I have another meeting at the top of the hour. Thank you so much for your time.” This will preserve the connection you have with that person.
If you aren’t sure if the person is finished, you can ask, “Are you finished?” The urgent fast-paced flow of many workplaces can sometimes make it tempting to interrupt, assume you know what’s going to be said, or discount the response entirely. That’s a connection killer, and if you do this too much, you may have to start all over again building your connection with that person.
The need to be heard is so strong that even if you think you DO already know what the person is going to say, it’s still important that you hear them say it.
Try this out, experiment, and let me know how it goes!
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Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com
Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/
Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Followership and Strategic Process - David Leitner
Lead & Follow
09/24/23 • 39 min
Dr. David Leitner has spent the last 15 years as a followership, leadership, and strategy educator. In this episode, he shares his passion and perspective on followership and leadership not only interpersonally but also as a way of analyzing relationships between states, communities, or companies.
Dr. D not only teaches these topics academically, he runs workshops, seminars, and lectures on for multinational companies, the Israeli Defense Forces, Military Preparation Academies, Israel Gap Year programs, Youth groups and more. As an IDF disabled veteran suffering from CRPS, David has been an advocate for accessibility and inclusion for over 20 years. He is married with 3 kids, and he is the only International Practical Shooting Confederation wheelchair competitor in Israel.
“Followership is the decision to ascribe to a strategic process that supports and furthers the manifestation of a mutually defined purpose.”
“Followership in and of itself is a choice.”
“Emergent leadership is lost because people don’t want to be followers especially when they’re in a [formal] position of leadership.”
Episode References
Robert Kelley, "In Praise of Followers," HBR 1998
Barbara Kellerman, "What Every Leader Needs to Know about Followers," HBR 2007
S1 E20 - Listening as a Core Followership Skill - Eran Magen
Connect with Dr. David Leitner
Website: https://www.drdleitner.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidleitner/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/david.a.leitner
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Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com
Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/
Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

Awareness and Intentionality in Leadership/Followership Education (JCU Part 1) - Scott Allen
Lead & Follow
01/30/23 • 37 min
I talk with Scott Allen, PhD, professor of management at John Carroll University, on integrating followership into leadership education and training, especially through the Collegiate Leadership Competition, which he co-founded. Scott is also an author and the host of the podcast Phronesis: Practical Wisdom for Leaders, and he regularly leads workshops across industries.
“There’s a word that we need to come up with that isn’t leadership or followership. There’s something more holistic there.”
“We are building awareness that there are two sides of the coin. This is a system at play.”
“What we’re really trying to do is bring students to a place of intentionality."
Connect with Scott Allen
www.scottjallen.net
Collegiate Leadership Competition
www.collegiateleader.org
Phronesis Podcast Episodes
Dr. Barbara Kellerman - Leader, Followers, & Contexts
Dr. Ron Riggio - Leadership: Here's What We Know
Sharna Fabiano – Connect, Collaborate, Co-Create
Sharna Fabiano – Lead & Follow
Dr. John Ross - Team Unity: A Leader's Guide to Unlocking Extraordinary Potential
Other Resources
John Ross, Team Unity
Kansas Leadership Center, “Intervene skillfully”
Youtube Video Clip, Apollo 13 - A New Mission
Mike Linville and Mark Rennaker, Essentials of Followership
Anthony E. Middlebrooks, Scott J. Allen, Mindy S. (Sue) McNutt, James L. Morrison, Discovering Leadership, second edition
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Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com
Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/
Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support

03/13/23 • 27 min
I speak with Grace Wright, board president of the Euclid Hunger Center and community resource manager at University Settlement, a social service agency serving the Slavic Village neighborhood of Cleveland, Ohio. She has worked in hunger relief services for the last 12 years, managing hunger centers in the Greater Cleveland area. She has an undergraduate degree in social work and nonprofit management and in August of 2022 she completed the John Carroll University MBA program. In her free time, she is an avid music lover and enjoys spending time with friends and family.
This episode is Part II of the John Carroll University series, so if you missed Part I, where I talk with Dr. Scott Allen about teaching leadership and followership, please do go back and listen! Grace shares her experience in the John Carroll program and how her understanding of followership is influencing how she leads.
“I think we get so caught up in thinking about leadership that we forget how critical [followership] is, and how much influence we actually have within a team.”
“I think it’s really easy to make assumptions about someone’s style of about what their intentions are, and I think we have to be really in tune with the little hints that everyone gives us to be able to draw a more solid conclusion about where anyone it at.”
“Every interaction is an opportunity to just learn a little bit more, gain a little bit more understanding, and then utilize that in ways that help you to be a better follower or lead in a way that is going to be more effective.”
“We are constantly learning, and we have to be willing to evolve with our teams and not stay in that same place and think that the same thing is going to work for everyone.”
University Settlement
www.universitysettlement.net
Euclid Hunger Center
www.euclidhungercenter.com
Tango Video
Leadership and Followership: What Tango Teaches Us About These Roles in Life
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Connect with your host Sharna Fabiano
https://www.sharnafabiano.com
Order the book: Lead & Followhttps://www.amazon.com/Lead-Follow-Dance-Inspired-Teamwork/dp/1646632796/
Support the Show!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1735834/support
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FAQ
How many episodes does Lead & Follow have?
Lead & Follow currently has 76 episodes available.
What topics does Lead & Follow cover?
The podcast is about Courage, Change, Management, Leadership, Creativity, Community, Podcasts, Connection, Support, Relationships, Business, Communication and Careers.
What is the most popular episode on Lead & Follow?
The episode title 'The Necessity of Followership in Peace Building - Pedro Portela' is the most popular.
What is the average episode length on Lead & Follow?
The average episode length on Lead & Follow is 33 minutes.
How often are episodes of Lead & Follow released?
Episodes of Lead & Follow are typically released every 13 days, 23 hours.
When was the first episode of Lead & Follow?
The first episode of Lead & Follow was released on Apr 27, 2021.
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