Episode Five: Cyber Power (Part II) - Hacking ISIS

02/07/21 • 50 min

In their first joint interview, the director of the UK spy agency GCHQ and the top general in charge of cyber operations for the military talk about how the UK is using the power of cyber to push back against adversaries with the creation of a whole new National Cyber Force.
Jeremy Fleming and General Sir Patrick Sanders also reveal new details about how the UK used offensive cyber in the fight against Islamic State, attacking the terrorist group’s ability to fly drones, use their mobile phones and spread online propaganda.
We also hear from a woman who was once described as the UK’s best offensive cyber spy.
Sally Walker has since left GCHQ and says she is choosing to speak out – now she’s once again a member of the public – to help generate a wider debate about the cyber grey zone.
Interviews:
Jeremy Fleming, director of GCHQ
General Sir Patrick Sanders, commander of Strategic Command
Sally Walker, cyber expert
Tobias Elwood, Conservative MP, chair of the defence select committee and former foreign officer and defence minister
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Michael Greenfield
The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris

Previous Episode

Episode Four: Cyber Power (Part I) - Cyber Pearl Harbour

States, criminals and terrorists all use cyber to attack each other in the grey zone. It puts anyone with a computer in the firing line, but also means that anyone who understands computers has the ability to fight back.
This episode explores a range of cyber threats from espionage up to attacks that cause physical harm, such as by targeting hospitals or electricity supplies.
Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes also speaks to a young computer expert called Marcus Hutchins who helped to stop one of the worst known cyber attacks to hit the UK.
The National Health Service was one of the main victims of the May 2017 WannaCry attack, blamed on North Korea. Pyongyang has denied involvement.
Interviews:
Ciaran Martin, former chief executive of the National Cyber Security Centre
Paul Chichester, director of operations at the National Cyber Security Centre
Marietje Schaake, international director of policy at Stanford’s Cyber Policy Centre
Harold Thimbleby, professor of computer science at Swansea University
Marcus Hutchins, computer security expert
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Sophia McBride and Michael Greenfield
The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris

Next Episode

Episode Six: Iran - The Hidden Hand

On 3 January 2020, the United States killed Iran’s top spy master, Major General Qasem Soleimani, in a drone strike in Iraq.
There was nothing grey or ambiguous about the assassination, but this episode explores the escalating grey zone hostilities between Iran and the United States in the preceding years and how they almost ignited a real war.
Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes explores in particular how Iran allegedly uses proxy forces in the grey zone, under the threshold of war, to try to level the playing field when competing with a super power.
Interviews:
General David Petraeus, former director of the Central Intelligence Agency
John Raine, Senior Adviser for Geopolitical Due Diligence, International Institute for Strategic Studies
Anne-Marie Trevelyan, Conservative MP and former UK defence minister. She now serves as energy minister
Fabian Picardo, Chief Minister of Gibraltar
Anonymous Iraqi MP
Seyed Mohammad Marandi, Professor of English Literature and Orientalism, University of Tehran
Major General Amos Yadlin, a former chief of Israel’s Military Intelligence Directorate
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Michael Greenfield
The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris