Into The Grey Zone
Sky News
What do assassinations, cyber hacks and disinformation have in common? They’re all weapons used by states against each other in a grey zone of harm that sits - deliberately - under the threshold of war, but could be just as dangerous if ignored.
Sky News Foreign Affairs Editor Deborah Haynes explores this often invisible battlefield, where anything can be - and is - used as a weapon and anyone, anywhere can be a target.
Sky News Foreign Affairs Editor Deborah Haynes explores this often invisible battlefield, where anything can be - and is - used as a weapon and anyone, anywhere can be a target.
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Top 10 Into The Grey Zone Episodes
Goodpods has curated a list of the 10 best Into The Grey Zone episodes, ranked by the number of listens and likes each episode have garnered from our listeners. If you are listening to Into The Grey Zone for the first time, there's no better place to start than with one of these standout episodes. If you are a fan of the show, vote for your favorite Into The Grey Zone episode by adding your comments to the episode page.
Introducing... The World with Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim
Into The Grey Zone
09/30/24 • 1 min
Sky News’ Yalda Hakim and NBC’s Richard Engel have covered world events for years. Now, they team up for a new podcast to share their experiences from the frontline.
They debrief from global flashpoints and discuss their encounters with the biggest decision makers. They’ll also be joined by some of those key players to help make sense of world events.
From conflict in the Middle East, to the US election, and the war in Ukraine there is no better place for analysis and expertise.
New episodes from Richard and Yalda every Wednesday, starting October 9th.
They debrief from global flashpoints and discuss their encounters with the biggest decision makers. They’ll also be joined by some of those key players to help make sense of world events.
From conflict in the Middle East, to the US election, and the war in Ukraine there is no better place for analysis and expertise.
New episodes from Richard and Yalda every Wednesday, starting October 9th.
Patient 11 | Locked-up and drugged
Into The Grey Zone
01/29/24 • 19 min
Young mother and former GB youth swimmer, Alexis Quinn, agrees to enter NHS England psychiatric care following a family tragedy. She could never imagine that her three-day admission will turn into a three-year ordeal. Then undiagnosed with autism, and often the subject of 24-hour surveillance as well as long periods in solitary confinement, Alexis descends to the darkest reaches of locked-in, psychiatric care. There, she encounters the kind of threat she never could have imagined in a secure mental health hospital. In a bid to break free, Alexis plots a daring escape. Making it back to her daughter, however, will pit her against some of the most powerful institutions in the State, including the police.
This episode contains discussions about sexual assault.
Narrated by Nicholas Pinnock (Top Boy, Django, For Life). This is episode 1 of Patient 11, a new investigative podcast from Sky News and the Independent. To hear all episodes now, follow Patient 11 on your favourite podcast player.
This episode contains discussions about sexual assault.
Narrated by Nicholas Pinnock (Top Boy, Django, For Life). This is episode 1 of Patient 11, a new investigative podcast from Sky News and the Independent. To hear all episodes now, follow Patient 11 on your favourite podcast player.
Episode Two: Truth vs Lies
Into The Grey Zone
01/18/21 • 47 min
This episode explores a battle between truth and lies that’s threatening democracies around the world. It looks at how information is used as a weapon, not just by hostile foreign states, seeking to divide and weaken rival nations, but also by domestic politicians and other actors.
Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes speaks to the author of a book on the history of disinformation, Professor Thomas Rid , who talks about fake news during the Cold War and warns about the risk of political violence today when people can no longer agree on facts.
It’s a warning that played out on the streets of Washington DC in January when supporters of Donald Trump stormed the US Capitol building, spurred on by a false belief that Joe Biden had stolen his way to victory in the 2020 presidential election.
Deborah also visits one of the UK’s best-known fighters of suspected Russian and Chinese fake news, who battles online trolls from his remote cottage in Scotland. And if you think that sounds strange, remember, in the grey zone, the frontline is everywhere!
Interviews:
Thomas Rid, professor of strategic studies at Johns Hopkins University, author of Active Measures – the secret history of disinformation and political warfare
Linas Linkevicius, foreign minister of Lithuania until December 2020
Keir Giles, author of a handbook on Russian information warfare for NATO, senior consulting fellow at Chatham House
Daniel Jones, founder and president of Advance Democracy
Ben Nimmo, head of investigations at Graphika
Ben Wallace, United Kingdom’s defence secretary
Kate Jones, director of Oxford University’s diplomatic studies programme.
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Sophia McBride and Victoria Seabrook
Additional voices provided by Cayetano Delgado
The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris
Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes speaks to the author of a book on the history of disinformation, Professor Thomas Rid , who talks about fake news during the Cold War and warns about the risk of political violence today when people can no longer agree on facts.
It’s a warning that played out on the streets of Washington DC in January when supporters of Donald Trump stormed the US Capitol building, spurred on by a false belief that Joe Biden had stolen his way to victory in the 2020 presidential election.
Deborah also visits one of the UK’s best-known fighters of suspected Russian and Chinese fake news, who battles online trolls from his remote cottage in Scotland. And if you think that sounds strange, remember, in the grey zone, the frontline is everywhere!
Interviews:
Thomas Rid, professor of strategic studies at Johns Hopkins University, author of Active Measures – the secret history of disinformation and political warfare
Linas Linkevicius, foreign minister of Lithuania until December 2020
Keir Giles, author of a handbook on Russian information warfare for NATO, senior consulting fellow at Chatham House
Daniel Jones, founder and president of Advance Democracy
Ben Nimmo, head of investigations at Graphika
Ben Wallace, United Kingdom’s defence secretary
Kate Jones, director of Oxford University’s diplomatic studies programme.
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Sophia McBride and Victoria Seabrook
Additional voices provided by Cayetano Delgado
The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris
Episode One: The Gathering Storm
Into The Grey Zone
01/10/21 • 48 min
This episode seeks to explain what the grey zone is. It includes a warning from General Sir Nick Carter, the head of the UK’s armed forces, and Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, about the danger of ignoring attacks in this murky space, while Lieutenant General Graeme Lamb, a former director of UK special forces, warns: “We’re being boiled like a frog!”
Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes then travels to Salisbury with the widow of former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko to visit the site of one of the most high profile grey zone attacks – the poisoning of another ex-Russian agent, Sergei Skripal, and his daughter Yulia.
Lord Mark Sedwill, a former national security adviser, talks about how he led the UK’s response to nerve agent poisoning and the fake news that followed.
Finally, Eliot Higgins, founder of the investigative website Bellingcat, describes how he and his team revealed the true identities of the Russian military intelligence officers named by the UK as prime suspects in the attempted assassination. Russia denies involvement.
Interviews:
General Sir Nick Carter, chief of the defence staff
Ben Wallace, defence secretary
Lord Mark Sedwill, former UK national security adviser, former cabinet secretary
Lieutenant General (retired) Graeme Lamb, former director of UK special forces
Marina Litvinenko, widow of former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko
Eliot Higgins, founder of the investigative website Bellingcat
Colonel Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, former commanding officer of the UK’s Joint, Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Regiment
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Sophia McBride and Victoria Seabrook
Additional voices provided by Cayetano Delgado
The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris
Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes then travels to Salisbury with the widow of former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko to visit the site of one of the most high profile grey zone attacks – the poisoning of another ex-Russian agent, Sergei Skripal, and his daughter Yulia.
Lord Mark Sedwill, a former national security adviser, talks about how he led the UK’s response to nerve agent poisoning and the fake news that followed.
Finally, Eliot Higgins, founder of the investigative website Bellingcat, describes how he and his team revealed the true identities of the Russian military intelligence officers named by the UK as prime suspects in the attempted assassination. Russia denies involvement.
Interviews:
General Sir Nick Carter, chief of the defence staff
Ben Wallace, defence secretary
Lord Mark Sedwill, former UK national security adviser, former cabinet secretary
Lieutenant General (retired) Graeme Lamb, former director of UK special forces
Marina Litvinenko, widow of former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko
Eliot Higgins, founder of the investigative website Bellingcat
Colonel Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, former commanding officer of the UK’s Joint, Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Regiment
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Sophia McBride and Victoria Seabrook
Additional voices provided by Cayetano Delgado
The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris
Introducing Into the Grey Zone
Into The Grey Zone
01/01/21 • 2 min
What do assassinations, cyber hacks and disinformation have in common? They’re all weapons used by states against each other in a grey zone of harm that sits - deliberately - under the threshold of war, but could be just as dangerous if ignored.
Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes explores this often invisible battlefield, where anything can be - and is - used as a weapon and anyone, anywhere can be a target.
The series examines grey zone assaults; from the poisoning of a former Russian spy and his daughter in the UK and the killing of a nuclear scientist in Iran; to attempts to influence elections in the United States; and a suspected North Korean cyber-attack on the NHS.
The podcast also includes interviews with spies and military chiefs who warn about the threat to daily life if attacks in the grey zone go unpunished.
In the words of one former head of the UK’s special forces: “We’re being boiled like a frog!”
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Sophia McBride and Victoria Seabrook
Additional voices provided by Cayetano Delgado
The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris
Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes explores this often invisible battlefield, where anything can be - and is - used as a weapon and anyone, anywhere can be a target.
The series examines grey zone assaults; from the poisoning of a former Russian spy and his daughter in the UK and the killing of a nuclear scientist in Iran; to attempts to influence elections in the United States; and a suspected North Korean cyber-attack on the NHS.
The podcast also includes interviews with spies and military chiefs who warn about the threat to daily life if attacks in the grey zone go unpunished.
In the words of one former head of the UK’s special forces: “We’re being boiled like a frog!”
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Sophia McBride and Victoria Seabrook
Additional voices provided by Cayetano Delgado
The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris
Episode Four: Cyber Power (Part I) - Cyber Pearl Harbour
Into The Grey Zone
02/01/21 • 42 min
States, criminals and terrorists all use cyber to attack each other in the grey zone. It puts anyone with a computer in the firing line, but also means that anyone who understands computers has the ability to fight back.
This episode explores a range of cyber threats from espionage up to attacks that cause physical harm, such as by targeting hospitals or electricity supplies.
Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes also speaks to a young computer expert called Marcus Hutchins who helped to stop one of the worst known cyber attacks to hit the UK.
The National Health Service was one of the main victims of the May 2017 WannaCry attack, blamed on North Korea. Pyongyang has denied involvement.
Interviews:
Ciaran Martin, former chief executive of the National Cyber Security Centre
Paul Chichester, director of operations at the National Cyber Security Centre
Marietje Schaake, international director of policy at Stanford’s Cyber Policy Centre
Harold Thimbleby, professor of computer science at Swansea University
Marcus Hutchins, computer security expert
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Sophia McBride and Michael Greenfield
The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris
This episode explores a range of cyber threats from espionage up to attacks that cause physical harm, such as by targeting hospitals or electricity supplies.
Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes also speaks to a young computer expert called Marcus Hutchins who helped to stop one of the worst known cyber attacks to hit the UK.
The National Health Service was one of the main victims of the May 2017 WannaCry attack, blamed on North Korea. Pyongyang has denied involvement.
Interviews:
Ciaran Martin, former chief executive of the National Cyber Security Centre
Paul Chichester, director of operations at the National Cyber Security Centre
Marietje Schaake, international director of policy at Stanford’s Cyber Policy Centre
Harold Thimbleby, professor of computer science at Swansea University
Marcus Hutchins, computer security expert
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Sophia McBride and Michael Greenfield
The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris
Episode Five: Cyber Power (Part II) - Hacking ISIS
Into The Grey Zone
02/07/21 • 50 min
In their first joint interview, the director of the UK spy agency GCHQ and the top general in charge of cyber operations for the military talk about how the UK is using the power of cyber to push back against adversaries with the creation of a whole new National Cyber Force.
Jeremy Fleming and General Sir Patrick Sanders also reveal new details about how the UK used offensive cyber in the fight against Islamic State, attacking the terrorist group’s ability to fly drones, use their mobile phones and spread online propaganda.
We also hear from a woman who was once described as the UK’s best offensive cyber spy.
Sally Walker has since left GCHQ and says she is choosing to speak out – now she’s once again a member of the public – to help generate a wider debate about the cyber grey zone.
Interviews:
Jeremy Fleming, director of GCHQ
General Sir Patrick Sanders, commander of Strategic Command
Sally Walker, cyber expert
Tobias Elwood, Conservative MP, chair of the defence select committee and former foreign officer and defence minister
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Michael Greenfield
The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris
Jeremy Fleming and General Sir Patrick Sanders also reveal new details about how the UK used offensive cyber in the fight against Islamic State, attacking the terrorist group’s ability to fly drones, use their mobile phones and spread online propaganda.
We also hear from a woman who was once described as the UK’s best offensive cyber spy.
Sally Walker has since left GCHQ and says she is choosing to speak out – now she’s once again a member of the public – to help generate a wider debate about the cyber grey zone.
Interviews:
Jeremy Fleming, director of GCHQ
General Sir Patrick Sanders, commander of Strategic Command
Sally Walker, cyber expert
Tobias Elwood, Conservative MP, chair of the defence select committee and former foreign officer and defence minister
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Michael Greenfield
The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris
Episode Six: Iran - The Hidden Hand
Into The Grey Zone
02/15/21 • 40 min
On 3 January 2020, the United States killed Iran’s top spy master, Major General Qasem Soleimani, in a drone strike in Iraq.
There was nothing grey or ambiguous about the assassination, but this episode explores the escalating grey zone hostilities between Iran and the United States in the preceding years and how they almost ignited a real war.
Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes explores in particular how Iran allegedly uses proxy forces in the grey zone, under the threshold of war, to try to level the playing field when competing with a super power.
Interviews:
General David Petraeus, former director of the Central Intelligence Agency
John Raine, Senior Adviser for Geopolitical Due Diligence, International Institute for Strategic Studies
Anne-Marie Trevelyan, Conservative MP and former UK defence minister. She now serves as energy minister
Fabian Picardo, Chief Minister of Gibraltar
Anonymous Iraqi MP
Seyed Mohammad Marandi, Professor of English Literature and Orientalism, University of Tehran
Major General Amos Yadlin, a former chief of Israel’s Military Intelligence Directorate
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Michael Greenfield
The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris
There was nothing grey or ambiguous about the assassination, but this episode explores the escalating grey zone hostilities between Iran and the United States in the preceding years and how they almost ignited a real war.
Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes explores in particular how Iran allegedly uses proxy forces in the grey zone, under the threshold of war, to try to level the playing field when competing with a super power.
Interviews:
General David Petraeus, former director of the Central Intelligence Agency
John Raine, Senior Adviser for Geopolitical Due Diligence, International Institute for Strategic Studies
Anne-Marie Trevelyan, Conservative MP and former UK defence minister. She now serves as energy minister
Fabian Picardo, Chief Minister of Gibraltar
Anonymous Iraqi MP
Seyed Mohammad Marandi, Professor of English Literature and Orientalism, University of Tehran
Major General Amos Yadlin, a former chief of Israel’s Military Intelligence Directorate
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Michael Greenfield
The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris
Episode Nine: Living in the Grey Zone - MI5 and the Russia threat
Into The Grey Zone
03/03/21 • 50 min
In this final episode, we have the first ever interview with serving MI5 officers who work in counter intelligence.
Tom and Kate talk about the challenge of grey zone threats from Russia and reveal their shock at the Salisbury spy poisonings.
They also reveal that the Security Service has bolstered protection for people in the UK deemed at risk from Russia and is doing “everything we can” to prevent another Salisbury-style attack, but there are no “absolute guarantees” – in the grey zone.
Guests:
Tom, senior MI5 intelligence officer working on Russia
Kate, MI5 intelligence officer investigating the activities of Russia’s military intelligence agency, the GRU
Lord Mark Sedwill, former UK national security adviser
Dominic Grieve, former senior Conservative MP, former chair of Parliament’s Intelligence and Security Committee, former attorney general
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Sophia McBide and Michael Greenfield
The Head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris
Tom and Kate talk about the challenge of grey zone threats from Russia and reveal their shock at the Salisbury spy poisonings.
They also reveal that the Security Service has bolstered protection for people in the UK deemed at risk from Russia and is doing “everything we can” to prevent another Salisbury-style attack, but there are no “absolute guarantees” – in the grey zone.
Guests:
Tom, senior MI5 intelligence officer working on Russia
Kate, MI5 intelligence officer investigating the activities of Russia’s military intelligence agency, the GRU
Lord Mark Sedwill, former UK national security adviser
Dominic Grieve, former senior Conservative MP, former chair of Parliament’s Intelligence and Security Committee, former attorney general
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Sophia McBide and Michael Greenfield
The Head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris
Episode Eight: When The Grey Zone Becomes A War Zone
Into The Grey Zone
03/01/21 • 43 min
What happens when the grey zone becomes a war zone and what might future wars look like, with hypersonic missiles, artificial intelligence and cyber changing calculations?
These are questions Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes explores in this episode, in part, by looking at Russia’s annexation of Crimea and the conflict in eastern Ukraine.
She also talks to General Sir Nick Carter, the head of Britain’s armed forces, about what he thinks is the gravest threat to the UK and about how the military is adapting to operate in the grey zone.
Guests:
General Sir Nick Carter, Chief of the Defence Staff
General Sir Richard Barrons, former head of Joint Command, now Strategic Command
Emine Dzhaparova , First Deputy Foreign Minister of Ukraine
Sergei Markov, political scientist and former member of the Russian parliament
Keir Giles, senior consulting fellow at Chatham House
Orysia Lutsevych, head and research fellow, Ukraine Forum, Russia and Eurasia Programme, Chatham House
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Sophia McBide and Michael Greenfield
The Head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris
These are questions Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes explores in this episode, in part, by looking at Russia’s annexation of Crimea and the conflict in eastern Ukraine.
She also talks to General Sir Nick Carter, the head of Britain’s armed forces, about what he thinks is the gravest threat to the UK and about how the military is adapting to operate in the grey zone.
Guests:
General Sir Nick Carter, Chief of the Defence Staff
General Sir Richard Barrons, former head of Joint Command, now Strategic Command
Emine Dzhaparova , First Deputy Foreign Minister of Ukraine
Sergei Markov, political scientist and former member of the Russian parliament
Keir Giles, senior consulting fellow at Chatham House
Orysia Lutsevych, head and research fellow, Ukraine Forum, Russia and Eurasia Programme, Chatham House
Credits:
Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes
Edited and produced by Chris Scott
Production support from Sophia McBide and Michael Greenfield
The Head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris
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FAQ
How many episodes does Into The Grey Zone have?
Into The Grey Zone currently has 14 episodes available.
What topics does Into The Grey Zone cover?
The podcast is about News and Podcasts.
What is the most popular episode on Into The Grey Zone?
The episode title 'Episode Two: Truth vs Lies' is the most popular.
What is the average episode length on Into The Grey Zone?
The average episode length on Into The Grey Zone is 34 minutes.
How often are episodes of Into The Grey Zone released?
Episodes of Into The Grey Zone are typically released every 7 days, 7 hours.
When was the first episode of Into The Grey Zone?
The first episode of Into The Grey Zone was released on Jan 1, 2021.
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