Episode 21: Opportunities for Legal with Sarah Ouis

03/28/23 • 30 min

How do you create user-centric legal operations? And actually, what does user-centric even mean in a legal context? Wonder no more, because today we're joined in the studio by Legal Design & Content superhero Sarah Ouis. Sarah will take us through her own journey from in-house counsel to out-of-house consultant and delve into the opportunities for scaling in-house Legal teams.

Thank you for listening to Inspiring Legal.

Full episode transcript:

[00:00 - 00:07] So, we're back with another episode of Inspiring Legal.
[00:07 - 00:11] My name is Stine and I'm your host.
[00:11 - 00:14] Openli is all about the community.
[00:14 - 00:22] It's all about inspiring each other and us to become even better in-house privacy counsels,
[00:22 - 00:29] GCs, head of legal, and working with that every single day.
[00:29 - 00:32] Today, I'm joined by Sarah.
[00:32 - 00:41] Sarah Ouis is an amazing person, one to get inspired by.
[00:41 - 00:48] And today, she's going to be talking about her journey, having worked in-house as a legal
[00:48 - 00:58] counsel, moving up in the ranks, so to speak, heading up legal teams, and now working no
[00:58 - 01:07] longer in-house, but from the outside, taking that view on how can we, working in-house,
[01:07 - 01:08] improve?
[01:08 - 01:09] What works?
[01:09 - 01:10] What doesn't work?
[01:10 - 01:16] With that maybe more objective view, because she's looking in from the outside.
[01:16 - 01:17] Welcome, Sarah.
[01:17 - 01:22] Thank you so much, Stine, for having me.
[01:22 - 01:26] Sarah, so people might know you.
[01:26 - 01:27] They might not know you.
[01:27 - 01:32] You have a massive following based on LinkedIn, and we'll talk about that as well.
[01:32 - 01:37] But maybe for the ones that don't know you, could you maybe just tell a little bit about
[01:37 - 01:40] yourself and your journey and who you are?
[01:40 - 01:41] Yeah, sure.
[01:41 - 01:44] So a little bit about myself.
[01:44 - 01:45] So I'm Sarah.
[01:45 - 01:52] I am a French qualified lawyer, but I've pretty much developed my career in the UK.
[01:52 - 01:53] That's after law school.
[01:53 - 01:56] That's pretty much where everything started for me.
[01:56 - 02:04] I worked as an in-house counsel in multiple industries, mostly in technology and pharmaceutical
[02:04 - 02:06] life sciences sectors.
[02:06 - 02:11] So these were really the sectors I knew the most.
[02:11 - 02:16] And I developed my career as an in-house counsel, first being part of a legal team, and then
[02:16 - 02:17] I joined a scale-up.
[02:17 - 02:24] I started off as a sole counsel, built the entire legal function and privacy function
[02:24 - 02:25] from scratch.
[02:25 - 02:34] So I've been for the weeds of what it takes to grow as an in-house team.
[02:34 - 02:41] And then in 2021, I kind of felt that I couldn't see myself doing this again.
[02:41 - 02:52] And I just figured that I was more passionate about problem solving in-house as opposed
[02:52 - 03:06] to being an in-house counsel on a daily basis, which made me move to work part-time with
[03:06 - 03:15] Contrapod AI, which I have a CLM, and also found my own consultancy, Lobeth House.
[03:15 - 03:23] So it's all about I really help legal team design user-centric in-house legal departments
[03:23 - 03:32] for them to increase customer satisfaction, but ultimately also be more fulfilled in everything
[03:32 - 03:33] they do.
[03:33 - 03:38] So yeah, that's about me.
[03:38 - 03:40] You say that's about you.
[03:40 - 03:41] That's quite impressive.
[03:41 - 03:49] And I also think you've kind of like did that journey where you started your career, right?
[03:49 - 03:56] And then you just built on from there, building the teams, building yourself, and being on
[03:56 - 04:02] that journey where when you're a part of a startup or a scale-up, you have to keep up
[04:02 - 04:03] with the business, right?
[04:03 - 04:12] You have to keep your team motivated, having massive workloads, having to improve yourself,
[04:12 - 04:17] motivate yourself, build out your own kind of career while doing this, and still trying
[04:17 - 04:24] to get that work-life balance to kind of, well, work, or at least just get some kind
[04:24 - 04:28] of normality into it.
[04:28 - 04:35] So Sarah, if you were to kind of like maybe put a few words on when you're now sitting
[04:35 - 04:42] at your consultancy and working with those legal teams, if you were to kind of like take
[04:42 - 04:48] a look at your own journey and think a little bit about what have I learned and what would
[04:48 - 04:54] I have done differently maybe, could you maybe just share some of those kind of thoughts?
[04:54 - 04:57] Yeah, sure.
[04:57 - 05:05] I think probably when looking...

Thank you for listening to Inspiring Legal.

Full episode transcript:

Previous Episode

Episode 20: Scaling Legal in a fast-growing SaaS company with Eva Mobacker

"Get to know the product and understand our unique selling points" - Today we're joined in the studio by Eva Mobacker, VP of Legal at Planhat. Listen in as she and Openli CEO Stine Tornmark discuss the ins and outs of scaling the legal clockwork at a (fast) growing company.

Thank you for listening to Inspiring Legal.

Full episode transcript:

[00:00 - 00:16] Welcome to Inspiring Legal, the podcast for in-house legal. Get insights, learn from peers, life lessons from some of the most influential GCs.
[00:16 - 00:35] If it's related to in-house legal, we cover it. For more inspiration, go to Openli.com slash community. Welcome back to another episode of Inspiring Legal.
[00:35 - 00:54] My name is Stine and I'm your host. Today, I'm joined by Eva Mobacker. She's going to introduce herself in a second. But Eva has a really strong background, having worked both at a law firm, then moved in-house,
[00:54 - 01:11] now scaling a team and being a part of a company that is growing not just fast, they're going super fast. So today, we're going to have a conversation about working in-house at a fast-growing company,
[01:11 - 01:32] scaling your team and how you do that. So, Eva, welcome. Thank you, Stine. Thank you for having me. Sleep-deprived, new mother on maternity leave. Well, Eva, I'm impressed by the kind of energy that you're having.
[01:32 - 01:48] And people will know exactly why that is in a second. Maybe, Eva, you can introduce yourself. Yeah, of course. Yeah, so like Stine said, I've been a lawyer for a long time. I think it's coming up on 18, 19 years now, which is just crazy.
[01:48 - 02:06] And I've worked primarily in-house, but a bit in private practice as well. And in companies of all sizes, like everything from small startups to the huge international multimillion companies. So I've seen a lot throughout the years. Definitely.
[02:06 - 02:24] I've been primarily in the gambling industry, which has been very interesting from a legal perspective. Albeit a bit controversial, of course, but I worked a lot with compliance matters in the gambling industry. But currently, a fast-growing SaaS company.
[02:24 - 02:48] Yeah, so that's where I'm at now. So for those who don't know you and from what I know about you, you've been working at a law firm where you let their privacy group sink. There you won secondment for AWS, then moved in-house to Hero Gaming and furthering on now to Planette, where you are VP of Legal.
[02:48 - 03:04] Eva, could you maybe just take people through that journey of like having gone from working at the law firm to then going on secondment? Very similar to my own journey, which was why when I met you first time, I was kind of like, wow, I love your background.
[03:04 - 03:24] But I think it could be super interesting to people like to maybe hear a little bit about what your journey has been, what it has been about, but also maybe some of the things that you've picked up along the way. Yeah, of course. I think, Stine, that was just like the last five years or so.
[03:24 - 03:46] So you have like another 13 years to come for before that, where I've done a bit of everything. But definitely like most other lawyers, I think I started in private practice back in 2006, 2007. I actually started working in London as a paralegal, which was a very interesting start of my career.
[03:46 - 04:04] And through that, I got a job at White & Casey in Stockholm. So that's where I started like my actual career as a lawyer, working a lot with M&A during very intense times. But I always felt like super interested in the actual business and being in private practice.
[04:04 - 04:19] You feel a bit like, you know, you become an expert at things, but you have to jump in and out very quickly from different companies. You never kind of, well, you can have a client over a long time, of course, but you never really see the day to day and,
[04:19 - 04:36] you know, take the strategic decisions, which is what I enjoy. So quite early on, I identified that I would probably be better suited to work in-house. So that's what I've done most of my career, even though I've had like smaller stints back at law firms as well throughout.
[04:36 - 04:55] And yeah, as I said before, I've worked in companies from, you know, now when I joined PlanPass a year and a half ago, we were 40 people. And as you mentioned, I've been at AWS with, you know, I don't know how many employees, but it's very interesting to see, you know, the different ways of working as well.
[04:55 - 05:12] At AWS, like you had very limited freedom as a lawyer. I mean, I was also like an external lawyer, so probably even less freedom, but there were fallback clauses for everything. And it was very kind of like almost mathematical, you know, this deal is worth this much.
[05:12 - 05:34] And maybe use this fallback clause so you can't even change a word without h...

Next Episode

Episode 22: Heading up a global privacy team - with Emma Redmond of Stripe

Millions of companies use Stripe to accept payments and grow revenue. An operation that big requires some serious privacy procedures. Luckily for Stripe, they have Emma Redmond to take care of just that. And luckily for us (and you!), Emma is a guest on today's episode of Inspiring Legal, where she shares some of her absolute gems of insights.

Thank you for listening to Inspiring Legal.

Full episode transcript:

[00:00 - 00:16] Welcome to Inspiring Legal, the podcast for in-house legal. Get insights, learn from peers, life lessons from some of the most influential GCs.
[00:16 - 00:40] If it's related to in-house legal, we cover it. For more inspiration, go to openli.com slash community. Inspiring Legal is back and we're back today with a special person who knows a thing or two about privacy.
[00:41 - 00:59] When you think about payments and you think about one of the biggest players in the world, well, that is Emma's company. Or it's not her company, but it's the company she works for. I'll let Emma introduce herself in a second, but Emma Redmond is working at Stripe.
[00:59 - 01:19] So Emma, for the listeners out there that don't know you, would you share a little bit about your background and the company you work for? Sure, of course. And first off, thanks so much for having me. It was delighted to take part in a podcast for a company that really values the legal in-house community.
[01:19 - 01:40] So it's an absolute pleasure. A little bit about me. I come from the far west of Ireland called Galway and I have been living and working from Dublin for the past 20 years. In that time, I attended University College Dublin, did my law degree there, did my Masters in Trinity, became a barrister with the Honourable Society of King's Inns.
[01:40 - 02:00] I'm a mom of three, an Irish dancer, adjunct professor at University College Dublin, which I love. And so there's there's a lot going on. And I currently, as you said, work for an amazing company called Stripe. And just a little bit about Stripe. Our mission is to increase the GDP of the Internet.
[02:00 - 02:16] And Stripe is a technology company that builds economic infrastructure for the Internet. Businesses of every size, from new startups to public companies, use our software to accept payments and manage their businesses online.
[02:16 - 02:32] So it's an absolute pleasure to work for Stripe and I'm having a lot of fun. So that's a little bit about me. So for the listeners, they might feel that energy that you have and you do have a lot of energy, which is amazing.
[02:32 - 02:48] And so for you with that background and having built your career as you've done. Could you maybe just share some good advice for the listeners out there who wants to be you in the next two to five years?
[02:49 - 03:09] And what I mean by that is that you're handing up privacy at a company that is really making a difference when it comes to online payments and that whole gateway. And Stripe is a really, really big company. For the people that might not know you, this is a global company that has been growing super fast.
[03:10 - 03:31] And has really, I think, changed the whole way that payments and subscriptions are managed. And it's not a sales pitch or me just going completely bananas, but that has really made a massive change. So with your then background, could you share how you kind of like got to where you are today?
[03:32 - 03:50] And is there any good advice? Yeah, of course. Look, like anything that's worthwhile, it takes time and patience is key. And for many who know me, I'm not always the most patient, but I had to be when it comes to a career like this,
[03:50 - 04:16] because it does organically change over time. Privacy is about principles and applying principles in a very complex space. And this goes for all of the companies I've been at, not just Stripe. And so, you know, as background, I suppose, really, you know, the advice that I have and accumulated as I macheted my way through all of these difficult landscapes is,
[04:16 - 04:39] I suppose, look, I practiced as a barrister for a number of years, and that really set me up neatly for what was coming down the tracks in my career. You know, you learn to be concise, you learn to be to the point, you know, you take the opportunities when they arise. You know, you have to, you know, put yourself out there, be uncomfortable and be OK with that.
[04:40 - 04:59] And that's easier said than done, of course. You know, I did, as I say, started off as a barrister, but I joined the fantastic in-house community. I was assistant general counsel at an ad tech online marketing company. And I thought to myself, you know, I was brave to make that jump, I think at the time, and I maybe didn't realize that.
[05:00 - 05:18] And what it did is expose me to the whole world of third party cookies. And of course, with that came the whole privacy sphe...