Episode 19: Finding your superpower with Chad Aboud

03/14/23 • 33 min

Today we're talking to Chad Aboud - the lawyer on a journey to make Legal more enjoyable and fulfilling. You might have seen him across social media, or you might not know him (yet), but one thing is for certain: after listening, you'll have a new perspective on your career and hands-on tips on how to find your superpower as a lawyer.

Thank you for listening to Inspiring Legal.

Full episode transcript:

[00:00 - 00:17] Welcome back to another episode of Inspiring Legal. So today we are joined by a person that is all about making life the most enjoyable that
[00:17 - 00:34] you can possibly get out of it. He is amazing. He is motivating. He is energetic. And he is all about combining happiness with lowering. So welcome, Chad.
[00:34 - 00:54] Thank you so much for having me and for that warm welcome. We will today talk about being happy and working in-house or at a law firm and how you can combine that if it's even doable. But before we start talking about that, maybe Chad, you can just tell people a little bit
[00:54 - 01:09] about your background and what you do today. Sure. Thank you. So I'm in Toronto, Canada, and I started my career about 12 years ago in a big law firm in Toronto, and I was helping public companies acquire other companies and raise money.
[01:09 - 01:25] And so I was doing that for about five years. And the training was amazing. I think any young professional services training skills are great. It forces you to learn how to think quickly, how to analyze, how to do a ton of work in a very short amount of time.
[01:25 - 01:41] And I valued that and I appreciated that and worked with some wonderful people. But I think at the same time, I really noticed that I was drawn to two elements that probably weren't the core of that job. One was I really liked training students and other lawyers as they started their career.
[01:41 - 01:58] I love being part of the student committee and the hiring committee loved that. And I also was looking at deal structures as I was doing them and saying, well, there's like 25% of the deal structure that seems irrelevant to the value to the client, but takes a lot of time and it's very painful for the lawyers and nobody cares.
[01:58 - 02:14] So let's wipe that out and then just do 75% of the work, still charge the same rate. Bottom line is amazing. Less work. Isn't this beautiful? And I think, in retrospect, as a young lawyer at a major law firm, suggesting how important it is about training the students and changing deal structures, I think a lot of folks were
[02:14 - 02:33] a little bit confused and I think that made me confused. And so what I realized was this probably wasn't going to be the future for me because I could tell my nature and energy was drawn elsewhere. And so I actually resigned from big law without necessarily knowing what I was going to do next and traveled around the world with my partner for six months and a personal professional
[02:33 - 02:49] journey. And then when I came back, went into industry, one of Canada's largest brands. And so retail, e-tail, expansion into the US with a retail footprint. And it was amazing because I'm a pretty curious cat. So I really like to like, what's a marketing team up to? What's the privacy team up to? I love that.
[02:49 - 03:05] And I love learning different types of law. And so that actually, it made a lot more sense to me for the first time because it was less about the law. Of course, I stole a lawyer, but it was a lot more around, well, we've got an operation to run. And so how do we find the right kind of law plus business, create relationships?
[03:05 - 03:23] It just felt more natural to me. And so I love that. Love learning how to be an in-house lawyer. But then after three years, I kind of had this same drive again about like, but I want to create the brand or the way or the relationships in my way. And so for the last three and a half years until recently, I became general counsel of
[03:23 - 03:39] this international tech company where we created the legal function and built out the team and brought in legal tech and it was part of the leadership team and it's an incredible journey, right? You get to build it the way you want to build it, with the parameters of the company's goals. But that was very motivating for me.
[03:39 - 03:54] But even then I realized I care the most about two things. One, helping people find the most that's in themselves and two, making their way forward easier. And while those things are very helpful for me as a general counsel, it wasn't the core
[03:54 - 04:09] of the job. And so I resigned in September because I knew I needed to follow that nature. And at the beginning of this year, I launched my own consulting and coaching business for the legal industry because through my journey, I just know that we can be successful and
[04:09 - 04:27] happy and fulfilled. It doesn't have to...

Thank you for listening to Inspiring Legal.

Full episode transcript:

Previous Episode

Episode 18: What a CEO needs from their GC

In today’s episode, we discuss (some of) the qualities of a successful general counsel. At an Openli Community event, Stine asked Trustpilot CEO Peter Mühlmann what he looks for in a GC. His answer? Listen to find out.

Thank you for listening to Inspiring Legal.

Full episode transcript:

[00:00 - 00:16] Welcome to Inspiring Legal, the podcast for in-house legal. Get insights, learn from peers, life lessons from some of the most influential GCs.
[00:16 - 00:36] If it's related to in-house legal, we cover it. For more inspiration, go to Openli.com slash community. Welcome to this episode from me, your host, Stine.
[00:37 - 01:00] You're listening to the podcast called Inspiring Legal, and you might have heard about me talking a little before. Today, well, it's me talking, but it's actually more me referring to a conversation I had with a CEO that I really like, that I have a close relationship with.
[01:00 - 01:17] And that is the CEO and founder, Peter Hultman from Trustpilot. So I worked together with Peter for six years. I came on board Trustpilot when there were 70 employees. And the first guy I met was Peter.
[01:18 - 01:37] He gave me a big hug the day I came in. He was wearing the classic, you know, Silicon Valley t-shirt, tennis socks, and some classic H2O slippers. And I was kind of like, OK, nice to meet you.
[01:37 - 01:53] You're very different from what I've known at the law firm, where everybody was wearing, you know, the classic blue shirt and the nice jacket. Maybe tie if you're going out for customer meetings, but otherwise, you know, the suit.
[01:53 - 02:24] So I met Peter and we bonded in the sense that he was a person and he is a person that is caring, outgoing, and always honest in his feedback. So not that long ago, I asked Peter to join an event we had here in Copenhagen for some of the members in the community.
[02:25 - 03:04] And I asked Peter to give feedback, feedback to the community on how he would like his general counsel to give good advice. What he preferred his general counsel to do when facing, let's call it complicated situations, and how the general counsel, in his opinion, get a place around the decision making table, you know, make a difference, become that business stakeholder that so many of us, well, are, but also would like to be.
[03:04 - 03:21] And continue improving on. So I asked Peter, wouldn't you just join this event and tell people some of the things that you've been saying to me for so many years? And by the way, it's not just me and Peter having a conversation.
[03:22 - 03:42] It was Peter having a conversation with the entire room. And it was super insightful. And I think what he said was very common to what CEOs are looking for. What Peter said that he's looking for is a general counsel that understands the business.
[03:43 - 04:02] That was his key element. As he said, like, don't be afraid to get your hands dirty. Jump on customer calls if sales is an important element of your business. Sit down with the marketing team on one of their weekly meetings and hear how they're generating leads.
[04:03 - 04:26] So that when you're having these executive management meetings, you, as the general counsel, know more about the business than the majority of the people around that table. That also means that you will be able to identify risk in a completely different way than what you would otherwise expect from the general counsel.
[04:27 - 04:56] But it also makes you more appreciated by your peers, but also by your CEO. What Peter then said, in addition to that, was when I'm asking for your opinion on something, I don't need a long memo. I don't need long, kind of like, on one hand, you know, and on the other hand, well, I need you to tell me yes or no.
[04:57 - 05:16] I trust that you know better than I. I trust that you, with all your knowledge of our business and the legal rules, are much better equipped to make that decision than me.
[05:17 - 05:34] And of course, sometimes decisions need to be escalated to the CEO. So when you escalate it, explain why it is that this scenario is being escalated and come up with your proposal.
[05:35 - 05:57] Don't leave it as, this is the, you have the blue pill and the red pill. Which one do you want to take? Tell me what pill would you prefer to take? And then, of course, me as the CEO is responsible for, if we take that blue pill, that we've taken in the pros and the cons.
[05:58 - 06:16] But I want to hear what you think. I want your opinion. And then what Peter also said is that, have opinions. That's not a bad thing.
[06:17 - 06:33] But remember, it's not just about saying yes or no. It's about being there for the business. And that your management group is the most important group. That is your peers.
[06:34 - 06:50] It's not your legal team that is the most important. It is not you as the general counsel that is the most ...

Next Episode

Episode 20: Scaling Legal in a fast-growing SaaS company with Eva Mobacker

"Get to know the product and understand our unique selling points" - Today we're joined in the studio by Eva Mobacker, VP of Legal at Planhat. Listen in as she and Openli CEO Stine Tornmark discuss the ins and outs of scaling the legal clockwork at a (fast) growing company.

Thank you for listening to Inspiring Legal.

Full episode transcript:

[00:00 - 00:16] Welcome to Inspiring Legal, the podcast for in-house legal. Get insights, learn from peers, life lessons from some of the most influential GCs.
[00:16 - 00:35] If it's related to in-house legal, we cover it. For more inspiration, go to Openli.com slash community. Welcome back to another episode of Inspiring Legal.
[00:35 - 00:54] My name is Stine and I'm your host. Today, I'm joined by Eva Mobacker. She's going to introduce herself in a second. But Eva has a really strong background, having worked both at a law firm, then moved in-house,
[00:54 - 01:11] now scaling a team and being a part of a company that is growing not just fast, they're going super fast. So today, we're going to have a conversation about working in-house at a fast-growing company,
[01:11 - 01:32] scaling your team and how you do that. So, Eva, welcome. Thank you, Stine. Thank you for having me. Sleep-deprived, new mother on maternity leave. Well, Eva, I'm impressed by the kind of energy that you're having.
[01:32 - 01:48] And people will know exactly why that is in a second. Maybe, Eva, you can introduce yourself. Yeah, of course. Yeah, so like Stine said, I've been a lawyer for a long time. I think it's coming up on 18, 19 years now, which is just crazy.
[01:48 - 02:06] And I've worked primarily in-house, but a bit in private practice as well. And in companies of all sizes, like everything from small startups to the huge international multimillion companies. So I've seen a lot throughout the years. Definitely.
[02:06 - 02:24] I've been primarily in the gambling industry, which has been very interesting from a legal perspective. Albeit a bit controversial, of course, but I worked a lot with compliance matters in the gambling industry. But currently, a fast-growing SaaS company.
[02:24 - 02:48] Yeah, so that's where I'm at now. So for those who don't know you and from what I know about you, you've been working at a law firm where you let their privacy group sink. There you won secondment for AWS, then moved in-house to Hero Gaming and furthering on now to Planette, where you are VP of Legal.
[02:48 - 03:04] Eva, could you maybe just take people through that journey of like having gone from working at the law firm to then going on secondment? Very similar to my own journey, which was why when I met you first time, I was kind of like, wow, I love your background.
[03:04 - 03:24] But I think it could be super interesting to people like to maybe hear a little bit about what your journey has been, what it has been about, but also maybe some of the things that you've picked up along the way. Yeah, of course. I think, Stine, that was just like the last five years or so.
[03:24 - 03:46] So you have like another 13 years to come for before that, where I've done a bit of everything. But definitely like most other lawyers, I think I started in private practice back in 2006, 2007. I actually started working in London as a paralegal, which was a very interesting start of my career.
[03:46 - 04:04] And through that, I got a job at White & Casey in Stockholm. So that's where I started like my actual career as a lawyer, working a lot with M&A during very intense times. But I always felt like super interested in the actual business and being in private practice.
[04:04 - 04:19] You feel a bit like, you know, you become an expert at things, but you have to jump in and out very quickly from different companies. You never kind of, well, you can have a client over a long time, of course, but you never really see the day to day and,
[04:19 - 04:36] you know, take the strategic decisions, which is what I enjoy. So quite early on, I identified that I would probably be better suited to work in-house. So that's what I've done most of my career, even though I've had like smaller stints back at law firms as well throughout.
[04:36 - 04:55] And yeah, as I said before, I've worked in companies from, you know, now when I joined PlanPass a year and a half ago, we were 40 people. And as you mentioned, I've been at AWS with, you know, I don't know how many employees, but it's very interesting to see, you know, the different ways of working as well.
[04:55 - 05:12] At AWS, like you had very limited freedom as a lawyer. I mean, I was also like an external lawyer, so probably even less freedom, but there were fallback clauses for everything. And it was very kind of like almost mathematical, you know, this deal is worth this much.
[05:12 - 05:34] And maybe use this fallback clause so you can't even change a word without h...