IndoctriNation

Mark Potok is an internationally renowned expert on the American radical right, who, for 20 years helped lead the legendary Southern Poverty Law Center in exposing hate groups, right-wing terrorism, and the rapidly increasing infiltration of extremist ideas into the political mainstream. In that role, Potok faced numerous death threats from white supremacists and constant vilification by leaders of the far-right media — a remarkable measure of just how effective his work was. Potok has been described in one book on social justice activists as having “a reputation as the preeminent editorial commentator who follows the American radical right.” In 2018, a year after leaving SPLC, he joined the Centre for Analysis of the Radical Right as a Senior Fellow. As the director of the SPLC’s Intelligence Project and, later, Senior Fellow at the SPLC and Editor in Chief of its award-winning Intelligence Report investigative magazine, Potok was a key spokesman for the SPLC, a civil rights organization based in Alabama. He has testified before the U.S. Senate, the United Nations High Commission on Human Rights, the Helsinki Commission, and in other key venues. In this second half of Rachel's conversation with Mark, he shares more of his perspective on the past, present, and future of the radical right, delving into his decades of experience with the Southern Poverty Law Center. Rachel and Mark exchange their ideas about how and why people are drawn to extremist groups and explore the commonalities behind a variety of far-right hate groups. Together they discuss the possible steps of action both individually and societally that may help to quell the increase in political violence and hate crimes. Before You Go: Rachel explores the idea of hereditary hate, explaining how the impressionable nature of children makes them uniquely susceptible to indoctrination into hateful ideology. For more info on Mark's work visit: https://markpotok.net/ For more info on SPLC visit: https://www.splcenter.org/ For more info on CARR visit: https://www.radicalrightanalysis.com/ Hear Rachel's thought on the U.S. Capitol insurrection: youtu.be/9srCmRMoXnQ Thanks to all of our newest Patreon supporters! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a rating or review on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!

CONTENT WARNING: SEXUAL ASSAULT Daniel Levin is an award-winning writer living in Los Angeles. He holds an MFA in poetry from the University of California, Irvine, where he taught creative writing and rhetoric. His writing has appeared in Provincetown Arts, The Sarah Lawrence Review, The Westchester Review, and The Bennington Review. During his time at Sarah Lawrence College Dan, as a 19-year-old sophomore got involved with Larry Ray the leader of what turned out to be a dangerous cult. Dan has written about these harrowing experiences in his new memoir SLONIM WOODS 9 A stunning firsthand account of the creation of a modern cult and the costs paid by its young victims. In this second half of their two-part conversation, Daniel continues telling Rachel his story of terror and survival detailing the physical, sexual and mental abuse he and his friends suffered at the hands of Larry Ray. Throughout his difficult retelling, Rachel offers Daniel her insights pointing out the manipulative tactics Larry used and the similarities found in other abusive cults. Together they discuss the red flags people should be aware of and offer hope to those survivors on a similarly long road to healing. Before you go: Rachel examines instances where manipulative leaders flip causal relationships to increase their power and control over their unsuspecting followers. More info on the case against Larry Ray: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/06/nyregion/sarah-lawrence-cult-lawrence-ray-trial.html Find Dan's book Slonim Woods 9 here: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/634501/slonim-woods-9-by-daniel-barban-levin/ Find Rachel's book "Now I Know: Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: https://www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel-Bernstein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to all of our newest Patreon supporters: Paul Gonzales, Leslie Eaves, David Kavanagh, Alina, Candace Sayour, Kathy Higham, Heather Mills, Desdamona Ross, Tessi, and Serena!! To help support the show monthly and get bonus episodes, shirts, and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!

Sat Pavan Kaur was born into the 3HO community and Sikh Religion. She spent her childhood moving around to various 3HO communities. At the age of 8, she was sent to India with 120 other children to go to boarding school leaving her family back in the US. At 16, she would be taken out of school and join Yogi Bajan's personal staff. In the last couple of years, she has left the Cult but stayed within the greater Sikh community. She is one of the many women that was abused by Yogi Bhajan. She has had to unravel her life, the good, the bad, and the horror that she experienced growing up in the 3HO community; the abuse she was subjected to, the toll it took on her and her husband, and the clear choices she made to raise her children differently from how she was raised. Sat Pavan now lives with her two children and husband of 27 years, raising her family and working hard to be a good person and do good in the world around her. She has been teaching and performing dance for the last 30 years to people of all ages and backgrounds, and is passionate about teaching and inspiring creativity, confidence, and individuality in her students, especially the younger generation which has been a hugely positive outlet for her. Satpavan is also a musician who plays Kirtan and has played Sikh religious music since she was a young girl and continues to do so. Her music, along with dance has kept her going by providing a sense of healing throughout her life. In this intimate conversation, Sat Pavan shares a full portrait of her life being born into the 3HO cult, from how her parents were pulled in to her childhood development as she was whisked away from one unsafe situation to another. Sat expertly points out the key moments of indoctrination, suffering, and, red flags she experienced throughout her decades involved with 3HO and it's monstrous guru. Throughout her story, Rachel offers insights from a psychological perspective to help explain the cult dynamics at play in her experiences and together they look forward to the healing that is to come in the future. Before You Go: Rachel explains why people who have survived intense trauma compartmentalize their emotions and often seem to downplay their suffering outwardly. She warns of the "realization trauma" that can occur as survivors uncover their own reality for the first time. For more information on Sikhism, Sat Pavan recommends these healthy organizations run by good people whose voices represent the Sikh community: Khalsa Aid, Sikh Coalition, Sikh Legal Defense Fund, Valerie Kaur, Art by Ruby, Ramblings of a Sikh, Khalra Mission You can see the documentary The Dark Empire of Yogi Bhajan | True Believers here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfr5jKauwtE Hear our episode with Jules Hartley on her 3HO experience here: https://soundcloud.com/indoctrinationshow/jules-hartley?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing Hear our episodes with Phillip Deslipe and Stacie Stukin on the Olive Branch Report here: Part 1: https://soundcloud.com/indoctrinationshow/stacy-phillip-pt-1 Part 2: https://soundcloud.com/indoctrinationshow/stacy-phillip-pt-2-revised Read Stacie's groundbreaking article on YB's abuses here: https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/yogi-bhajan/ Thanks to all of our newest Patreon supporters: Amelia Brunner, Jon Butler, Ashley Moose and 4MileCircus !!! To help support the show monthly and get bonus episodes, shirts, and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctrination You can help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!

Emily is a former member of C3 NYC where she endured three years of pastoral abuse. Her account @C3ChurchWatch on Instagram was created in June 2020 as an effort to stop the harassment she was experiencing. She did not think anyone but her pastor would notice it, but soon found herself with plenty of followers and supporters privately and publicly citing harm or abuse from C3 churches all over the world. Her church and the Philadelphia location responded by conducting a smear campaign, telling members to block the account, hunting down account supporters, and sending Emily a false legal threat that was rescinded when a journalist became involved. Following along with a larger movement, and with a prior background in cult recovery, Emily quickly saw the need for those exiting toxic evangelical spaces to understand what happened to them and where to go to safely process their experience. She operates her account today to document her own journey, gathers articles and investigations involving C3, holds space for those wanting to share their story publicly or privately, shares resources, helps people find appropriate therapy, and speaks with family/friends of current members. Emily provides some background on C3 Church Global, a charismatic movement founded in Sydney, Australia, with a community of over 500 churches worldwide. In addition to her insights on the mega-church culture in general, she shares her personal experience of pastoral abuse in the Philadelphia location of C3. Rachel and Emily discuss the red flags she noticed along the way as well as the self-doubt that prevented her from having the clarity of mind to see the group for what it really was. Emily shares with Rachel how she ultimately extricated herself from the church and came to victim advocacy work through her IG account. Before You Go: Rachel explains the importance of exploring the biases that may prevent you from noticing warning signs of high control groups. She points out how the optics of certain situations can be a distractionary element that clouds your perspective. Follow Emily's C3 account here: https://www.instagram.com/c3churchwatch/ More Info on C3 here: https://c3churchwatch.com/2012/03/10/macdougalls-testimony-of-pringles-early-beginnings/ Find Rachel's book "Now I Know, Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel...ein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to all our new Patreon supporters: Nicole Kraft Marla Hendershot, Frank Morgan, Jennifer Atkinson, Sylvia Bernstein, and Tara S. To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!

Returning this week is Roberta Blevins, a former "Hun", who left the MLM world in 2017 and began publicly educating and speaking out against it. In her time in MLM, she was involved as a consultant for 3; It Works!, LuLaRoe and Modere, and a customer of many. Since leaving MLM, she has educated herself on the systemic structure of the business model, the psychological manipulation, the seedy underbelly, and governmental ties, the cult indoctrination, and the history of Multi-Level Marketing. She educates daily on TikTok, and podcasts in her "free time", talking to the survivors and victims of these commercial cults, disguised as the quickest route to the American Dream. In this second part of their two-part conversation, Rachel begins by sharing how she lost a friendship to an MLM, while Roberta goes on to describe the moment that prompted her to finally leave the MLM world. Roberta details a day in the life of a "hun" and how she ultimately extricated herself from the pyramid. She also discussed her transition into "hun" advocacy and anti-MLM activism through both education and humor. Before You Go: Rachel addresses the guilt that ex-members of high control groups often feel after leaving the group. She provides insight into the self-loathing that can accompany the admission of predatory behavior in ex-members. Listen to Roberta's podcast "Life After MLM" here: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/life...lm/id1553784236 Find Rachel's book "Now I Know, Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: https://www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel-Bernstein/dp/1620867893/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=now+i+know+rachel+bernstein&qid=1638298566&sr=8-1 Thanks to our newest Patreon supporters Robert Andre and "Teahaze" and to Hollie Hire and Katherine Matheson for increasing their support! We couldn't do it without you! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!