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Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners

Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners

Cheryl Ham

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1 Creator

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1 Creator

Welcome to the Indie Made Biz Podcast! I’m Cheryl Ham, and after growing my handmade businesses to 7 figures, I’m sharing the strategies that helped me turn my passion into a full-time income. If you’re making the products you sell, you need to do things differently—tune in for actionable tips and proven strategies to help you launch, scale, and thrive as a creative entrepreneur.
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Top 10 Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners Episodes

Goodpods has curated a list of the 10 best Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners episodes, ranked by the number of listens and likes each episode have garnered from our listeners. If you are listening to Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners for the first time, there's no better place to start than with one of these standout episodes. If you are a fan of the show, vote for your favorite Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners episode by adding your comments to the episode page.

Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners - 13: How to Make More Sales Creating the Products You WANT to Create

13: How to Make More Sales Creating the Products You WANT to Create

Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners

play

04/04/22 • 58 min

This week we’re rolling up our sleeves and welcoming Erica from the Lopsided Crafter on to the podcast for a little up close and personal coaching. When you’re first starting out, you might have more ideas for new products than you have space or money. So as a business owner, you have to be able to sell any product that you make. But how do you know that the ideas that you have, and the products that you create, are going to click with your audience? If you’ve been wondering how you’re going to keep up with your audience’s demands, we’re here to give you advice on how to create your own demand with your most valuable talent: your own creativity!

Quote-worthy

“You need to build a business that you love. It doesn't matter how many customers love what you're putting out there if you hate doing it.” – Cheryl

“At the end of the day, you just have to be true to yourself. When you're just like, ‘This is me and this is what I like,’ you are going to attract some just diehard fans, and your joy and your enthusiasm is going to attract more and more people.” – Nicky

“There's really not a hard rule that says when you're starting out you should dye this much yarn or you should make this much productive at any given thing. It is about learning what you like, what your customers like, and what you're comfortable doing. Just try to be intentional, because I know if I could give myself advice for when I first started, I would say that you don't need to try all the things. Just stick with a couple of things that you really like.” – Cheryl

Key Points and Takeaways:

  • Your creativity is your most valuable asset
  • Starting out you have limited space and funds, so use what you have effectively
  • Listen to your audience’s wants, but don’t try to chase their approval

You can find Erica and the Lopsided Crafter and all of her beautiful dyed yarn at:

Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheLopsidedCrafter?ref=shop_sugg

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thelopsidedcrafter/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theLopsidedCrafter

Have a subject you’d like us to cover or just want to comment about how much you love the podcast? We want to hear from you! You can like, subscribe, and leave us a 5-star rating everywhere you can download podcasts.

Don’t forget to share YOUR Needle Mover with us on Instagram by posting it to your Stories and tagging us, or shoot us a DM. Together, let’s make a BIG impact in our businesses over the next 2 weeks!

Come find us on social media - we would love to hear from you!

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Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners - 06: A Behind The Scenes Look At Our Workflows

06: A Behind The Scenes Look At Our Workflows

Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners

play

12/27/21 • 56 min

If your business is a one person show and you find yourself struggling to get all the things done (in business and in life), then we know exactly how you feel. We all want our businesses to run like a well oiled machine - each day, week, and month set up for success with a strategy in place to conquer every task that needs doing.

But sometimes that’s easier said than done! We’ve all had those moments where we’re running around like our hair is on fire, just trying to make it through the day.

The best way to speed up processes without cutting corners is by creating systems and using workflows. In this episode we explain what a workflow is, what it can look like, and where to start.

Topics discussed in this episode:

  • 1:28: What is a workflow?
  • 4:28: where does your workflow start?
  • 6:17: What does a workflow look like?
  • 14:34: How to use Trello or Asana to create workflows
  • 21:57: What does Cheryl think about multitasking verses doing one thing at a time?
  • 26:06: Nikki’s hot tips for staying focused
  • 47:56: Nikki’s hint for completing dreaded tasks

...and so much more!

Needle Mover

  • We’re closing out every episode by declaring a Needle Mover in each of our businesses. You learn more about what a Needle Mover is and what it isn’t in episode 2 of the podcast.
  • 49:07: Nikki’s needle minder
  • 50:41: Cheryl’s needle minder

Don’t forget to share YOUR Needle Mover with us on Instagram by posting it to your Stories and tagging us, or shoot us a DM. Together, let’s make a BIG impact in our businesses over the next 2 weeks!

Links:

Come find us on social media - we would love to hear from you!

One more thing...

Do you run your own handmade business? And are you ready to take that business to the next level?

After seven years of growing my hand-dyed yarn business into a multi six-figure success, I'm excited to share my best strategies, resources, and actionable tips with you.

At Indie Made Biz, where handmade artistry meets business mastery, I’m not holding back. I’m sharing all of my knowledge and experience with you. Ready to grow your handmade your way? Subscribe to my Indie Made Biz email list for the best advice delivered straight to your inbox!

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Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners - 33: Why Selling Feels So Hard (and How to Make It Easier) with Guest Kari Capone

33: Why Selling Feels So Hard (and How to Make It Easier) with Guest Kari Capone

Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners

play

02/17/25 • 60 min

Selling can feel awkward—especially for creatives who’d rather be making than marketing. If you’ve ever hesitated to promote your products because you don’t want to sound pushy or salesy, this episode is for you!

I’m joined by my friend Kari Capone, founder of The Spinning Hand, to talk about the mindset shifts and strategies that make selling feel natural (and even fun!). We get real about the fears that hold people back, why "confidence" is overrated, and how to actually ask for the sale in a way that feels good. Plus, Kari shares how she went from struggling to ask for the sale in her first business to running a thriving handmade business today.

If you’ve ever thought, I don’t want to bother people or they’ll buy if they want it—I don’t need to ask, grab a coffee and join us for this conversation. It might just change how you think about selling.

Timestamps & Key Takeaways [00:00] – Why Selling Feels Hard (and Why You’re Not Alone)

Most creatives love making but hate selling. We break down why selling feels so uncomfortable—and why that doesn’t mean you’re doing it wrong.

[06:30] – The Money Stories Holding You Back

The way you grew up thinking about money is impacting how you sell—whether you realize it or not. Kari shares how her "squeeze every penny" mindset made selling feel icky (and how she changed it).

[15:45] – The Truth About Confidence (Hint: It’s Overrated)

"You don’t wake up confident—you wake up with courage." If you’re waiting to feel confident before you sell, you’ll be waiting forever.

[24:00] – Selling Doesn’t Have to Feel Gross

Pushy, manipulative selling isn’t the only way. Here’s how to authentically sell—without feeling like a used car salesman.

[35:20] – If You’re Only Talking About Your Product Once, You’re Losing Sales

Most people aren’t seeing every post or email you send. Talking about your product repeatedly isn’t annoying—it’s necessary.

[42:10] – Trust Your Customers to Make Their Own Buying Decisions

It’s easy to assume what people will or won’t spend based on our own money mindset, but that’s not our decision to make. Our job is simply to share what we offer—our customers will decide if it’s right for them.

[51:30] – Handling Unsubscribes Like a Pro

Every email list loses people—but unsubscribes aren’t rejection. Learn why losing subscribers can actually be a good thing.

[1:02:00] – How to Start Asking for the Sale (Without Feeling Weird About It)

If the thought of asking people to buy makes your stomach turn, this section is for you. We share simple, doable ways to ease into selling with confidence.

Resources Mentioned

Some links in this episode may be affiliate links. If you make a purchase through these links, we may earn a commission at no additional cost to you. Thank you for supporting our podcast!

Let’s Connect!

I’d love to hear how this episode shifted your perspective on selling! What’s one small step you’re taking to sell with more confidence? Let’s chat:

🌐 Website: www.indiemadebiz.com

Instagram: @indiemadebiz

Facebook: www.facebook.com/indiemadebiz

Find Kari Online

🌐 Website: www.thespinninghand.com Instagram: @thespinninghand Facebook: www.facebook.com/thespinninghand

Know someone who could benefit from this episode? Share it with them and help spread the inspiration!

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Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners - 29: Surviving Holiday Beast Mode

29: Surviving Holiday Beast Mode

Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners

play

12/26/22 • 64 min

We’ve made it all the way to the end of the year and more than likely, you’re super busy right now. In my business, we call it Beast mode because inevitably this time of year we’re working our tails off with different projects and fulfilling orders to keep up with seasonal orders. It’s very easy to stress yourself out, so on this week’s podcast I’m going over what I’ve learned over the years managing stress, burnout, and rest at this time of the year.

Key Takeaways:

Growth at the expense of your health is not worth it! Sometimes, we just need to get through the season with what we have rather than taking on new projects that may or may not bring you joy, but also bring you added work. Think about what benefits you’re getting from expanding or what you could gain by scaling back.

This time of year is hard on everybody, including your employees! Don’t forget about all of their hard work over the year and understand that doing what’s in the best interests of your workers can pay dividends.

It’s a perfect time after the Beast mode to think about what you’re going to do next year, how you want to grow, what direction you want to go, and what you need to do to get there.

One more thing:

Do you run your own handmade business? And are you ready to take that business to the next level?

After seven years of growing my hand-dyed yarn business into a multi six-figure success, I'm excited to share my best strategies, resources, and actionable tips with you.

At Indie Made Biz, where handmade artistry meets business mastery, I’m not holding back. I’m sharing all of my knowledge and experience with you. Ready to grow your handmade your way? Subscribe to my Indie Made Biz email list for the best advice delivered straight to your inbox!

We’re sad to say that for the time being, this will be the last episode of what we’re calling Season One of the Makers Gonna Sell Podcast. There may be a Season 2, but when that may or may not happen is still up in the air. That doesn’t mean we’re giving up! 2023 is looking to be a full year for Cheryl and Nicky, but if we are able to get everything we need to build our businesses and we have the time to make this the priority it should be, you’ll be the first to know. You can still connect with us through our social media profiles, and we always love hearing from you. All our previous episodes are going to be available for further listening, and we have loved bringing you the content and look forward to serving you more in the future!

Come find us online - we would love to hear from you!

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Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners - BONUS: Is It Time To Hire Help? (Replay)

BONUS: Is It Time To Hire Help? (Replay)

Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners

play

11/28/22 • 61 min

Are you so busy working IN your business that there’s no time left to work ON your business?

We’ve all said it, “There aren’t enough hours in the day.”

It really does feel that way when you’re wearing all the hats in your creative business. And it can be downright impossible to embrace the visionary role that your business requires of you when you’re bogged down with perpetual product making and never-ending to-do lists!

But guess what? We all get the same 24 hours each and every day. It’s what you do with them that counts.

Imagine what it would feel like if you had an extra set of hands every now and then. Would it change your life if you could take a day off (or *gasp* go on vacation) all the while things are still getting done?

Hiring is a big step, and you might be thinking, “Yeah, that all sounds great, but I’m not even paying myself yet! How the heck am I going to hire someone?”

In today’s episode we’re going to walk you through getting the right type of help without breaking the bank, and why it might be the best thing you can do for your business.

Topics discussed in this episode:

  • 1:00: Are you being pulled in too many directions?
  • 5:54: The different shapes and sizes of hiring help.
  • 28:26: Finding the right fit is sometimes trial and error.
  • 32:30: Do you really need to spend money to make money?
  • 40:59: Where do you find the help you need?

...and so much more!

Needle Mover

  • We’re closing out every episode by declaring a Needle Mover in each of our businesses. You learn more about what a Needle Mover is and what it isn’t in episode 2 of the
  • podcast.
  • 49:01: Cheryl’s Needle Mover
  • 54:30: Nicky’ Needle Mover

Don’t forget to share YOUR Needle Mover with us on Instagram by posting it to your Stories and tagging us, or shoot us a DM. Together, let’s make a BIG impact in our businesses over the next 2 weeks!

Come find us on social media - we would love to hear from you!

bookmark
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Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners - 28: Find Yourself a Business Bestie

28: Find Yourself a Business Bestie

Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners

play

11/14/22 • 46 min

After weeks apart doing solo podcast episodes, the stars have aligned, and fate has finally reunited us! It’s a double the flavor, double the fun episode with both Cheryl and Nicky back from our solo journeys and we’re happy to be together again. This happy meeting has reminded us how important it is to have a business friend to share all the feelings of running a business, and if you don’t have one yet we’re laying out everything that we’ve learned finding each other and what the differences are between a friend in your personal life and someone to share our business adventures with.

You wouldn’t think that having a business friend that you can share your wins and worries with would be an important part of being a successful business owner, but when it really gets right down to it, being able to share your experiences with someone who’s been there before, or who might be able to give some insight, that kind of relationship can be invaluable. We don’t know where we would be if we couldn’t send each other messages of encouragement or bounce our frustrations off of each other. Hopefully our experience can help you find the right person for you to connect with and create your own business friend!

Key Takeaways:

The importance of Business friendships cannot be overstated - if you’re going to be a successful business owner, you need to have a network you can relate to all those highs and lows

Personal friendships mean well, but they’re no substitute for someone who is going through or has been through a similar experience

Your peers are looking for those types of relationships too! Don’t be afraid to reach out and start talking

Quotes:

“Because we're business owners, our work takes up so much of our time that our family members, our children, our parents, our significant others, they all want to be there and to be supportive of us. But if we don't have actual business buddies, kind of separate from those people, then all we have is our family and our like regular life friends to talk to about our business and it can get repetitive.” – Cheryl

“When you run into a problem, a business friend can usually see things from a different perspective and has the experience to see things that we miss because we're so close to it.” – Nicky

“At some point, if you want to have a friendship, you need to trust somebody. If you're not comfortable with people in your own industry, look for people outside of your industry. Your business friend does not have to be somebody within your industry; it can be somebody who does something completely different.” – Cheryl

“But you will surprise yourself. When we started talking, it was about if I had a question or just wanted to run something by her. But slowly it just evolved into this amazing friendship.” – Nicky

Have a subject you’d like us to cover or just want to comment about how much you love the podcast? We want to hear from you! You can like, subscribe, and leave us a 5-star rating everywhere you can download podcasts.

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Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners - 27: Keeping a Healthy Work / Life Balance through the Seasons of your Life

27: Keeping a Healthy Work / Life Balance through the Seasons of your Life

Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners

play

10/31/22 • 36 min

We hear about it all the time: how do we, as creative entrepreneurs, maintain a healthy work / life balance? We want to dedicate as much time as we can to making our business successful, but how much of our personal life should we sacrifice to achieve that result? On this episode of the podcast, Cheryl’s sharing her experience building her business from the ground up while also having a professional career and a growing family, and how realizing our life is more about seasons than work and play helped her be able to find a good balance between both.

Key Takeaways:

Not every season of our personal and professional life is going to be the same

As such, balancing those two aspects of our life requires thought and planning to be successful

Communication with our family and our work associates is key to finding that balance

Sacrificing one side for the other is tipping things too far! We’re more than our work, but our work is important to us as well

Quotes:

“I believe that we all have seasons in our lives and in our business. A season might last a month, or it might last a quarter, or it might last six months. It could even last a year. It could be any span of time. However, we all have the seasons that bring different things into our lives.” – Cheryl

“I think to run a successful business, you need to be showing up for your people. However, we can't always be on. And there's no sense in beating ourselves up about times in our lives where we just can't show up in that way.” – Cheryl

“There are only so many things we can do in a day, even if we are the most organized person, even if we have the most perfect systems in place. We can't do everything because we are not superhuman, and it’s okay to recognize that because it means not having a breakdown, not burning out, or not finding yourself in crisis because you're trying to do too many things. To me, having it all means being able to maintain my business while still being able to enjoy the other aspects of my life without letting the stress become overwhelming.” - Cheryl

Have a subject you’d like us to spin a yarn about? We’re dying to hear from you! You can leave us a comment wherever you download your podcasts, and while you’re at it, subscribe and leave us a 5-star rating. Grow with us as we put out more podcast episodes!

Come find us online - we would love to hear from you!

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Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners - 26: A Behind the Scenes Look at Hiring Help While Growing Your Business (with a special guest!)

26: A Behind the Scenes Look at Hiring Help While Growing Your Business (with a special guest!)

Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners

play

10/17/22 • 61 min

What happens when you’ve built your business to the point where in order to keep up with everything, you need to hire some help? What happens when you need help even though you’re still working out of your home? It might be time to find your first employee! Today Cheryl is talking about what happened when she hired her General Manager Jess to help her with the day-to-day working of her business.

At the core of Cheryl and Jess’s experience working together was the idea that this wasn’t going to be a traditional type of employer-employee relationship. At the time she was hired, Cheryl was still working out of her house and working at a corporate job, so when she first approached Jess they established clear boundaries, clear responsibilities, and most important of all, a clear line of communication to make the relationship work. It can be hard to find someone willing to work on an irregular/flexible schedule, so clear communication is crucial when you are able to bring on someone to help out.

Key Takeaways:

It’s likely to start out as an irregular employment, so being flexible is key

Clearly establish responsibilities and allow your employee to take ownership of tasks

Communication is so important to keep the relationship professional and positive!

Flexibility, Honesty, Appreciation, and Communication are the cornerstones of a good working relationship

Quotes:

“I think that people get held back thinking, ‘Well I can do this myself. Why do I need to bring somebody else in?’ And yes, you can do everything yourself, but eventually you’ll just be exhausted.” - Cheryl

“You always have to be aware of the relationship between you and your employee. If you’re friends, you can’t just take the friendship for granted and assume that they know what you want from them, or that you know what they want from you. You have to be able to speak to each other.” – Cheryl

“It’s really important to vocalize that you appreciate that they’re giving you their time. Understanding that they’re carving out hours of their day to help you and that they want to do that, showing your appreciation for your employee goes a long way.” - Jess

Have a subject you’d like us to cover or just want to comment about how much you love the podcast? We want to hear from you! You can like, subscribe, and leave us a 5-star rating everywhere you can download podcasts.

Come find us online - we would love to hear from you!

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Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners - BONUS: Breaking Into An Oversaturated Market (Replay)

BONUS: Breaking Into An Oversaturated Market (Replay)

Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners

play

10/03/22 • 54 min

Are you worried that the market you're trying to break into is oversaturated and there’s no room for you to stand out? Or maybe you think that getting ahead means you need to outshine the competition?

If you’ve ever struggled with how to get noticed and feel like you’re attempts to be seen are falling on deaf ears, it’s not your fault. It super hard to blaze your own path. And if you’ve done your fair share of Googling, you know that information on this topic is scarce.

You are not alone!

We felt this way too when we were starting out, but then realized that we're not actually in competition with everyone our market, and actually, there is plenty of room for all of us.

In today's episode, we share our thoughts on strategies you can use to stand out and grow your business, even when it feels like everyone else is selling the same thing as you.

Topics discussed in this episode:

  • There’s room at the top for everyone [00:03:15]
  • Switching your mindset from selling product to building a community [00:14:53]
  • How to serve instead of sell [00:29.40]
  • Why it’s so important to get yourself a business buddy [00:34.50]

...and so much more!

Needle Mover

  • We’re closing out every episode by declaring a Needle Mover in each of our businesses. You learn more about what a Needle Mover is and what it isn’t in episode 2 of the podcast.
  • Cheryl’s Needle Mover [0:45:48]
  • Nicky’s Needle Mover [0:46:40]

Don’t forget to share YOUR Needle Mover with us on Instagram by posting it to your Stories and tagging us, or shoot us a DM. Together, let’s make a BIG impact in our businesses over the next 2 weeks!

Come find us on social media - we would love to hear from you!

bookmark
plus icon
share episode
Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners - 04: Breaking Into An Oversaturated Market

04: Breaking Into An Oversaturated Market

Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners

play

11/29/21 • 54 min

Are you worried that the market you're trying to break into is oversaturated and there’s no room for you to stand out? Or maybe you think that getting ahead means you need to outshine the competition?

If you’ve ever struggled with how to get noticed and feel like you’re attempts to be seen are falling on deaf ears, it’s not your fault. It super hard to blaze your own path. And if you’ve done your fair share of Googling, you know that information on this topic is scarce.

You are not alone!

We felt this way too when we were starting out, but then realized that we're not actually in competition with everyone our market, and actually, there is plenty of room for all of us.

In today's episode, we share our thoughts on strategies you can use to stand out and grow your business, even when it feels like everyone else is selling the same thing as you.

Topics discussed in this episode:

  • There’s room at the top for everyone [00:03:15]
  • Switching your mindset from selling product to building a community [00:14:53]
  • How to serve instead of sell [00:29.40]
  • Why it’s so important to get yourself a business buddy [00:34.50]

...and so much more!

Needle Mover

  • We’re closing out every episode by declaring a Needle Mover in each of our businesses. You learn more about what a Needle Mover is and what it isn’t in episode 2 of the podcast.
  • Cheryl’s Needle Mover [0:45:48]
  • Nicky’s Needle Mover [0:46:40]

Don’t forget to share YOUR Needle Mover with us on Instagram by posting it to your Stories and tagging us, or shoot us a DM. Together, let’s make a BIG impact in our businesses over the next 2 weeks!

Come find us on social media - we would love to hear from you!

One more thing...

Do you run your own handmade business? And are you ready to take that business to the next level?

After seven years of growing my hand-dyed yarn business into a multi six-figure success, I'm excited to share my best strategies, resources, and actionable tips with you.

At Indie Made Biz, where handmade artistry meets business mastery, I’m not holding back. I’m sharing all of my knowledge and experience with you. Ready to grow your handmade your way? Subscribe to my Indie Made Biz email list for the best advice delivered straight to your inbox!

bookmark
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FAQ

How many episodes does Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners have?

Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners currently has 38 episodes available.

What topics does Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners cover?

The podcast is about Leisure, Etsy, Entrepreneur, Crochet, Entrepreneurship, Women, Creative, Podcasts, Business, Coaching and Crafts.

What is the most popular episode on Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners?

The episode title 'BONUS: Is It Time To Hire Help? (Replay)' is the most popular.

What is the average episode length on Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners?

The average episode length on Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners is 47 minutes.

How often are episodes of Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners released?

Episodes of Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners are typically released every 14 days.

When was the first episode of Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners?

The first episode of Indie Made Business: A Podcast for Creative Entrepreneurs and Handmade Business Owners was released on Oct 20, 2021.

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