Masonic Religion

Explicit content warning

08/29/22 • 74 min

Freemasonry, the oldest fraternal organization in the world, has some deeply rooted religious traits, and an odd don't-ask-don't-tell relationship with the Church of Rome. The national mythology of the whole democratic world celebrates men who have been initiated into its sacred rites, and countless exposés have been published, yet there's still an awful lot of secrecy and misinformation.

Is Freemasonry a cult? Does it even qualify as a religion?

The Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of Alberta will help shed some light on the subject.

Freemasonry is democratic all the way to the core, and only half of the legitimate Grand Lodges claim jurisdiction over entire countries; the other half stick to provincial and "state" boundaries. A friendly relationship exists between the vast majority of these Grand Lodges (as long as they have legitimate claim to authority in that region), but there is no global Masonic authority.

Despite many centuries of rich Masonic history, the United Grand Lodge of England was established in 1813, and the earlier Grand Lodge from which it claims authority doesn't have much evidence of being founded in 1717....

All this and more....

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[00:00:13] Katie Dooley: Hi Preston! Are we starting this episode?

[00:00:15] Preston Meyer: Yeah. We'll start.

[00:00:16] Katie Dooley: Okay. Hi, Preston.

[00:00:18] Preston Meyer: Hi, Katie.

[00:00:19] Katie Dooley: Today. I mean, you're a subject matter. You're always a subject matter expert.

[00:00:23] Preston Meyer: I mean, we've talked a lot about a lot of things over the last couple of years that have been stuff that I know a lot from research rather than experience. Today is a lot more experienced stuff, a lot closer to home.

[00:00:38] Katie Dooley: I like it. What are we talking about today on.

[00:00:40] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon Podcast?

[00:00:44] Preston Meyer: Today we're talking about Freemasonry.

[00:00:46] Katie Dooley: But that's not a religion.

[00:00:48] Preston Meyer: Well, that depends on who you ask.

[00:00:50] Katie Dooley: That depends how you define religion.

[00:00:52] Preston Meyer: Yes

[00:00:52] Katie Dooley: Please see episode two.

[00:00:56] Preston Meyer: Ah, yeah. For a lot of people who don't know much on the subject, mostly, that's a fair label for those people. Freemasonry is not only a religion, but a dangerous cult.

[00:01:10] Katie Dooley: I was going to say it's a cult. It's a link to the Illuminati and the lizard people.

[00:01:15] Preston Meyer: I mean, half right. It is linked to the Illuminati, not to the lizard people.

[00:01:19] Katie Dooley: Is it because lizard people don't exist?

[00:01:21] Preston Meyer: Correct.

[00:01:22] Katie Dooley: Okay. I... Freemasonry is funny because anytime I've visited a lodge on. I mean, usually it's like an open house sort of thing. They're always very open about who they are, what they do.

[00:01:37] Preston Meyer: Right? The buildings are marked. It's not like we're some secret underground organization. The Square and Compass, the well-known icon for the organization, is on the outside of every building we own.

[00:01:50] Katie Dooley: Mhm. Yeah. If you go in at the right time, they'll tell them all about you.

[00:01:55] Preston Meyer: Sure.

[00:01:55] Katie Dooley: And they know how to party.

[00:01:56] Preston Meyer: Yeah.

[00:01:59] Katie Dooley: Highly recommend.

[00:02:01] Preston Meyer: Yeah, especially for the annual communication every Grand Lodge has, where they have as many Masons as are willing to come to one central location within the jurisdiction. Chill out at a hotel, drink late into the night, whiskey connoisseurs everywhere, or Scotch or whatever. There's, you know, diverse people, diverse tastes, whatever.

[00:02:24] Katie Dooley: So i...

Is Freemasonry a cult? Does it even qualify as a religion?

The Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of Alberta will help shed some light on the subject.

All this and more....

Support us at Patreon and Spreadshirt

Join the Community on Discord

Learn more great religion facts on Facebook and Instagram

Learn more on our official website

[00:00:13] Katie Dooley: Hi Preston! Are we starting this episode?

[00:00:15] Preston Meyer: Yeah. We'll start.

[00:00:16] Katie Dooley: Okay. Hi, Preston.

[00:00:18] Preston Meyer: Hi, Katie.

[00:00:19] Katie Dooley: Today. I mean, you're a subject matter. You're always a subject matter expert.

[00:00:38] Katie Dooley: I like it. What are we talking about today on.

[00:00:40] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon Podcast?

[00:00:44] Preston Meyer: Today we're talking about Freemasonry.

[00:00:46] Katie Dooley: But that's not a religion.

[00:00:48] Preston Meyer: Well, that depends on who you ask.

[00:00:50] Katie Dooley: That depends how you define religion.

[00:00:52] Preston Meyer: Yes

[00:00:52] Katie Dooley: Please see episode two.

[00:00:56] Preston Meyer: Ah, yeah. For a lot of people who don't know much on the subject, mostly, that's a fair label for those people. Freemasonry is not only a religion, but a dangerous cult.

[00:01:10] Katie Dooley: I was going to say it's a cult. It's a link to the Illuminati and the lizard people.

[00:01:15] Preston Meyer: I mean, half right. It is linked to the Illuminati, not to the lizard people.

[00:01:19] Katie Dooley: Is it because lizard people don't exist?

[00:01:21] Preston Meyer: Correct.

[00:01:50] Katie Dooley: Mhm. Yeah. If you go in at the right time, they'll tell them all about you.

[00:01:55] Preston Meyer: Sure.

[00:01:55] Katie Dooley: And they know how to party.

[00:01:56] Preston Meyer: Yeah.

[00:01:59] Katie Dooley: Highly recommend.

[00:02:24] Katie Dooley: So i...

Previous Episode

Apes Together Strong

Fascism has earned an ugly name over the last century, no question about it. Some religions lean into it, some look forward to a day when it can be openly celebrated, especially in monotheistic traditions. This week, we're exploring what it really means to be inside, to see fascism differently than what history has shown us. Straight out of the mouths of Benito Mussolini and Francisco Franco, we examine the difficulty in defining fascism, and why some Christians are taking advantage of that obscurity.

We get a little help from Umberto Eco and Stanley Payne in our efforts to delineate the nature of the beast, but few organizations hit all the landmarks--watch out for the ones that do. Ultimately, when it comes to religious groups throwing their hats in with the fascists, as we see all around the world today, it's up to every good person to stand against these fundamentalist authoritarian parties while it's still safe to do so.

All this and more....

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Sinclair Lewis: “When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross”
[00:00:01] Katie Dooley: I felt like you were gonna inject something else there.

[00:00:18] Preston Meyer: We don't usually record this early.

[00:00:21] Katie Dooley: Yeah, I thought you were going to say something. You did.

[00:00:23] Preston Meyer: Yeah.

[00:00:24] Katie Dooley: Yeah. No, we don't record this early. And you can tell on this episode of.

[00:00:31] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon Podcast

[00:00:35] Katie Dooley: Everyone can hear our morning voices.

[00:00:36] Preston Meyer: Yum, yum.

[00:00:39] Katie Dooley: We're ready to roll.

[00:00:40] Preston Meyer: We'll see.

[00:00:42] Katie Dooley: So last episode we talked about.

[00:00:45] Preston Meyer: Communism.

[00:00:45] Katie Dooley: Communism. Why are we talking about this episode?

[00:00:48] Preston Meyer: Today we're going to talk about fascism.

[00:00:50] Katie Dooley: The opposite.

[00:00:52] Preston Meyer: I mean, they're not opposites. They're on two different spectrums. Communism is an economic policy that leans into politics in other ways. A little bit. Fascism is a governmental style that occasionally includes economic policies. And just like last time when we talked about communism, we brought it around to validate its presence on our podcast. And fascism does a really good job of pushing its way into the religious sphere.

[00:01:28] Katie Dooley: I was gonna say it's like self-validating.

[00:01:31] Preston Meyer: Uh, the vast majority of Christians are patiently waiting for a world where everybody will kneel at the throne of a single God, one that is painted as darkly totalitarian in several Christian traditions. And this looks a little bit fascist in some situations. So before we get into what that looks like in the religious sphere, I think we do need to talk about fascism in general. And if we're not describing you personally, we're probably not talking about you. A lot of people get their heckles up about fascism. It's a word that gets used as a weird pejorative. An awful lot more than it should. Yeah, a lot of people just don't like the word fascism because, you know, the fascists were the enemies during the Second World War. And that's actually the only association that a lot of people have with the word is fascists are the bad guys without any understanding why. So very few.

[00:02:32] Katie Dooley: To the point where some people don't even realize that they themselves are a fascist.

[00:02:35] Preston Meyer: Correct. Because they don't understand the word. They don't recognize what it means.

[00:02:40] Katie Dooley: I think Steve Rogers would really be really upset with the state of America right now.

[00:02:44] Preston Meyer: That definitely played into his representation in the MCU that when we first see him, he's got the star on, he's got the stripes. His second movie, the Winter soldier....

Next Episode

University and Obscurity - an Interview with Dr. Glen Fairen

This week, we’re joined by Dr. Glen Fairen, PhD, a religious studies professor at Oklahoma State University, for a thought-provoking discussion on academia, religious history, and the unexpected ways we engage with belief systems. Dr. Fairen shares why some of his favorite moments in the classroom come from students challenging his ideas because questioning is at the heart of academic growth. We also dive into how religious studies can be made more accessible, engaging, and even sexy—because let’s be honest, history and theology should never be boring.

Beyond the classroom, we explore Dr. Fairen’s fascinating research on the Qumran and Nag Hammadi groups, as well as the study of witchcraft—which, despite popular misconceptions, is a legitimate area of religious scholarship. We break down the ways occult traditions and witchcraft aren’t inherently evil, but rather, how societies tend to label unfamiliar or uncomfortable beliefs as “occult.” .

Our conversation with Glen is packed with humor, laughter, and plenty of insights. Dr. Fairen brings both expertise and wit to the table, making complex religious concepts approachable and entertaining. Whether you're a scholar, a skeptic, or just curious about the history of Christianity, alternative spiritualities, or how academia shapes our understanding of faith, you won’t want to miss this episode.

This interview continues on Patreon

Dr. Fairen is the author of As Below, So Above: Apocalypticism, Gnosticism, and the Scribes of Qumran and Nag Hammadi. You can find it on Amazon.

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[00:00:11] Katie Dooley: Hi, Preston.

[00:00:12] Preston Meyer: Hi, Katie. It's another great one. We're doing another interview on the Holy Watermelon Podcast.

[00:00:19] Katie Dooley: We're supposed to say at the same time.

[00:00:20] Preston Meyer: You're right.

[00:00:21] Preston Meyer: I didn't lead up to that properly at all.

[00:00:24] Katie Dooley: We're doing another interview today on.

[00:00:26] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon Podcast.

[00:00:29] Katie Dooley: Yeah, it's a little bit corny.

[00:00:31] Glen Fairen: No. It's excellent.

[00:00:34] Katie Dooley: Would you like to give our guest the professional introduction? And then I'm going to tell a personal story.

[00:00:40] Preston Meyer: All right. So, Doctor Glenn Farren is a visiting assistant professor at Oklahoma State University and an adjunct lecturer at the University of Texas, El Paso. Glenn received his PhD in religious studies from the University of Alberta in 2015, which happens to be the year I started at the U of A. He is also the author of "As Below, So Above: Apocalypticism. Gnosticism and the Scribes of Qumran and Nag Hammadi", published by Gorgias Press in 2008, which is long before your PhD.

[00:01:11] Glen Fairen: It was my master's dissertation.

[00:01:13] Preston Meyer: Okay.

[00:01:14] Glen Fairen: Yeah. I don't know how that happened.

[00:01:16] Katie Dooley: Cool.

[00:01:16] Glen Fairen: The reviews have been terrible. So it's been... It's great. Yeah.

[00:01:20] Katie Dooley: Well, thank you so much for coming to do this.

[00:01:23] Glen Fairen: Oh. Thank you.

[00:01:24] Katie Dooley: Interview. I'm super excited to pick your brain on all sorts of religious studies things.

[00:01:30] Preston Meyer: So I'm curious what prompted you to get into religious academia?

[00:01:35] Glen Fairen: I want to say it's something deep and profound, but I actually was failing, not failing, but doing poorly in my science degree. I was in pre-med for a little while and my undergrad then I was I ended up getting a minor in astronomy, I think, but I sucked at the numbers and I to...