Holy Watermelon

Religion and pop culture go together like watermelons and summer. They are so intertwined, sometimes we don't even recognize the allusions anymore! Can pop culture be a religious experience? Can the love for pop culture go too far?

In this episode, we explore its core concepts. We talk about the role of God and touch on Buddhism. We question terms like "holy" and "sacred".

Our exploration continues into the complexities of religion and spirituality. We discuss the differences between righteousness and holiness and think about the challenges of understanding holy texts. We draw connections between deification and fan culture, questioning the rituals and tax-exempt status of both.

We then broaden our discussion to talk about spirituality versus religion. Exploring the wider scope of spirituality, including practices like sound therapy and LSD use. We challenge the idea that religion requires specific beliefs. Our conversation also touches on tax exemption for churches, inspired by John Oliver's humorous take. We share different views on whether churches should be tax-exempt, considering transparency and financial concerns. We end by inviting listeners to share their thoughts on this complex topic.

Book: Jesus Potter Harry Christ: The fascinating parallels between two of the world's most popular literary characters, by Derek Murphy

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**

Preston Meyer 00:14

And welcome to the holy watermelon Podcast. I'm Kate Preston.

Katie Dooley 00:20

And what are we talking about today?

Preston Meyer 00:23

What are we talking about?

Katie Dooley 00:25

I mean, I did all the research for this episode, so I should probably introduce it. We're talking about

Preston Meyer 00:31

para religion and culture, pop

Katie Dooley 00:34

culture, as religion is the topic, but religion in pop culture will definitely come up. I think it's unavoidable. We also I'm just gonna say we have a third co host, that's my dog. So if you hear snorts or jingles, that's her, that'll just help with editing if you just know she's here. Alright, so let's get started. I guess. When I was researching this, I found a term I had never actually heard before, which was pair religion and I thought that that describe what we're talking about really well. And its definition is a secular belief system having certain aspects of religion, but not all aspects of religion. So then I had to look up what religion was because if you heard our last few episodes nobody knows.

Preston Meyer 01:27

Yeah, I think the things we covered in the last two episodes lend themselves very easily to the discussion of parrot religion.

Katie Dooley 01:35

Yes, and I Yes, all the talk arounds I guess what religion is and what Gods are basically fall under pair religion. So for morons who didn't really throw up formal religion has a belief in supernatural powers, some influence or live rituals and ceremonies and so a pair religion would be missing some of those things. So this is where pop culture comes in. And that could be repaired religion, whether that sports celebrity, your favorite TV show, media, Aberdeen's media, just like a big that covers all, YouTube and books, and everything worshipping

Preston Meyer 02:17

PewDiePie.

Katie Dooley 02:20

I mean, I think we all have our favorite YouTubers. Well, yeah, I

Preston Meyer 02:24

think if you spend enough time on YouTube, you're definitely somebody that you're going to keep going back to.

Katie Dooley 02:29

It's true, like the holy watermelon podcast, right?

Preston Meyer 02:32

Like and Subscribe. He was five star reviews. So

Katie Dooley 02:37

we're getting better this. Maybe we should start our conversation with why people worship pop culture, like religion, and maybe some similarities and differences and what that looks like. I mean, you wrote a paper on this.

Preston Meyer 02:56

I did. And I didn't actually explore the why in the paper that I wrote. But I just tried to illustrate a whole bunch of things and said, See, these people are definitely religious in their reverence for these things. Yeah, sports m...

Sex and sexuality among believers isn't as monolithic as you might think, and of course there's the outlying "bad actors" to keep this spectrum broad.

The Torah has some strict rules about who Jewish men should avoid, but isn't too quick to prescribe punishment for premarital sex. The Christian New Testament has some rules about minding your own business. Islamic tradition has some strong words about oral sex. And so much more....

The word 'abomination' gets a brief exploration, the sort of thing you might not expect.

Marianismo is a growing problem among religious communities, though it's been around for a long time, too. We also explore "purity culture" and the "Madonna-Whore" complex of Freudian fame.

The Dharmic religions have another angle on sexuality, and the Buddha encourages the faithful to avoid such attachments.

The sexy theme of the month wouldn't be complete if we didn't take a quick look at the Kama Sutra.

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[00:00:00] Katie Dooley: Hey everyone, trigger warning on this episode there will be some sexual assault content.

[00:00:18] Preston Meyer: You also don't know how to start this episode.

[00:00:20] Katie Dooley: Nope. Sure don't because it's awkward. It's like that sex talk with your parents, but it's that sex talk with your friend.

[00:00:28] Preston Meyer: That's fair.

[00:00:29] Katie Dooley: I'm Katie.

[00:00:30] Preston Meyer: Hi, I'm Preston.

[00:00:32] Katie Dooley: And this is...

[00:00:33] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon podcast.

[00:00:36] Katie Dooley: We're kicking it up a notch. We talked about Saint Valentine a couple weeks ago. Now we're talking about sex.

[00:00:43] Preston Meyer: Yeah, we're done with the courtship, and now we're into the exciting bit.

[00:00:46] Katie Dooley: But not with each other.

[00:00:49] Preston Meyer: Yes. Important details.

[00:00:52] Katie Dooley: We're just friends, listeners, if you've ever wondered.

[00:00:57] Preston Meyer: Both married to other people.

[00:00:59] Katie Dooley: Yes.

[00:01:00] Preston Meyer: Well, it's there's there's a lot of people that that's not a barrier for, but...

[00:01:05] Katie Dooley: Fair. It is for our monogamous Protestant relationships.

[00:01:11] Preston Meyer: Yeah.

[00:01:13] Katie Dooley: But nonetheless, we're gonna have a sex talk.

[00:01:16] Preston Meyer: Yep. A lot of religions are very strict on sexual purity. Of course, there's a spectrum. You've got some Christians who are way into free love. Don't get too close to your pastor. If he's really encouraging free love. Um, you're probably in a danger cult.

[00:01:40] Katie Dooley: Um, yes. Most religions think that sex should only be between a married man and his wife. Female wife. Yeah.

[00:01:51] Preston Meyer: Wife does imply female, but.

[00:01:53] Katie Dooley: Well, you know.

[00:01:54] Preston Meyer: You know, there's some, uh. Ambiguity now, and that's people are going to do what they're going to do.

[00:02:01] Katie Dooley: And people going to fuck what they want to fuck.

[00:02:03] Preston Meyer: Yeah. Uh, but there are rules depending on who you hang out with.

[00:02:08] Katie Dooley: Yeah, depending on what your sky daddy says and the people that interpret that.

[00:02:14] Preston Meyer: Yes.

[00:02:19] Katie Dooley: Uh, wow. Well, I feel like a kid again.

[00:02:22] Preston Meyer: Let's let's take a look at the the judaist tradition, that premarital sex is really not a huge deal according to the Torah. There's no strong verbiage banning it. Obviously, it's not encouraged. That's just not something we find in Scripture. I guess.

[00:02:45] Katie Dooley: But You're not going to burn in hell forever for it.

[00:02:47] Preston Meyer: Right? I mean, the idea of burning in hell for having sex feels fully ludicrous. But a lot of churche...

In this episode, we take a closer look at the complex concepts of gods and worship. We start by defining God and then discuss how historical figures, like George Washington, have been worshipped in certain situations. We also explore the historical practice of deification, focusing on the worship of emperors and monarchs.

Moving on, we discuss divine intervention in American history and how historical figures are sometimes treated like deities. Our perspectives on worship highlight its submissive nature and stress the importance of having a real connection to a deity or hero.

We touch on monotheism and the challenges it poses, examining the history of religious leaders being treated as gods. Lastly, we explore various gods and entities, including the portrayal of ancient gods in modern times, and discuss the potential problems associated with excessive or harmful worship practices.

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**

Katie Dooley 00:11

Alright, welcome to the next episode of The Holy watermelon podcast. Preston, what are we talking about today? Because it's all you,

Preston Meyer 00:21

we are talking about what is it God? And without looking at our show notes, what do you How would you describe or define a god?

Katie Dooley 00:30

Oh, no. I would describe a god as an invisible being that controls our lives. So pretty strong Yes. Yes, that has some sort of control over the outcomes of things, life. Stuff we pray for and asked to happen. Okay, outcomes of the Superbowl and whether we're gonna get a rain for harvest. Okay.

Preston Meyer 01:12

But it has to be invisible. Does it have to be here?

Katie Dooley 01:17

No, it definitely doesn't have to be here. But that's just the feminist in me. And I don't know of any visible Gods unless we're talking about

Preston Meyer 01:28

idols. What about George Washington? I

Katie Dooley 01:31

wouldn't consider him because

Preston Meyer 01:35

believe it or not a lot of people do.

Katie Dooley 01:40

Oh, wasn't his slave owner?

Preston Meyer 01:43

He was a slave owner. That's okay. Yeah, absolutely. Back in a time when that was the economic norm. If you had any sort of power at all, you definitely own somebody.

Katie Dooley 01:57

I mean, back in

Preston Meyer 01:58

those days, that's the way it was still on people. Right? I mean, you can get a slave from Africa for 400 bucks. cheaper if you, you know, hunt around a little better than the average person grows. We don't condone slavery, no, slavery is bad. Owning another person treating them as property instead of a person is definitely not okay. And there's a reason it's not normal anymore. But it used to be. And that sucks. But absolutely, George Washington is worshipped as a god, if you go to Washington, DC, there's this huge painting. And I wish I can remember the the name of the building it's in. There's somebody out there who'd be happy to share that information of the deification is huge painting of George Washington becoming a god. And there's a shrine in Hawaii of all places, that has a portion of it dedicated to George Washington. It's also very close to a nearly identical shrine for Abraham Lincoln, who was also worshipped as a god. It does not seem weird.

Katie Dooley 03:10

It does. It sounds like anyone or anything could be a god. And I know. For poor listeners, the next few episodes are going to be very big and very vague with no answer. So we're just going to talk around what a god is for the next 45 minutes to lay the foundation for the next episodes because this is information that although there's no answer to people need to know,

Preston Meyer 03:38

a religion can't exist without these ideas, whether they use the same vocabulary there has to be in some measure these ideas

Katie Dooley 03:47

and that's the worship of person, place or thing, right.

Preston Meyer 03:51

The worship of a noun object.

Katie Dooley 03:57

Yeah, an object.

Preston Meyer 03:59

Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

Katie Dooley 04:01

you just need to be a noun. Should we r...

What is a church? How does a religious society really differentiate itself from any other kind of society? What does it take to become a priest of the Holy Watermelon?

Some people join self-help groups without realizing they've been trapped in a cult. We'll be up front about it: this is a church.

How can we be a church while also being secular and academic? Easy, the rules that define religion are extremely soft. Emile Durkheim and Clifford Geertz weigh in with their definitions, which are variably useless; James Martineaux is just wrong about what counts as religion when we look beyond the walls of the Abrahamic tradition; Friedrich Schleiermacher makes some sense of the matter, but it's hard to agree with him, too, even to the point that we have to agree with Sigmund Freud in pointing out the obvious flaws in his reasoning....

Church, worship, piety, and reverence each get a little bit of attention in this pursuit of useful definitions, too.

Ultimately, the San Lanatus Fellowship stands for humanity, education, and critical curiosity, welcoming people of all spiritual inclinations under the banner of undefined agnosticism.

All this and more....

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Dr. Wes Thiessen isn't just a great storyteller, he's a conflict resolution expert, and he's here to tell us about Sharia Law, its history, its real world function in Muslim communities, and why it shouldn't make anybody nervous.

Islam is not monolithic, and neither is the study of law. The Golden Rule is extremely important in most legal cases, and the way it's applied in most cases deserves credit, as we'll hear Wes explain.

Living and working throughout the "Muslim World," Dr. Wes has a lot of experience that we find useful for "understanding the other," and building better relationships across what many prefer to see as boundaries.

We also look at the legal background of the extremist groups that are causing trouble for Muslims and their neighbours all around the globe.

This interview continues on Patreon

You can WATCH this interview on YouTube

Connect with Dr. Wes on Instagram or Facebook, or check out his website: UnderstandingTheOther.com

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Other links for Islam in Alberta:

Al-Rashid Mosque, Edmonton

Islamic Information Society of Calgary

For other Islamic connections local to you, we'd be happy to connect you.

[00:00:11] Katie Dooley: Hi, Preston.

[00:00:12] Preston Meyer: Hi, Katie.

[00:00:14] Katie Dooley: I am very excited for today's episode of

[00:00:17] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon Podcast.

[00:00:21] Preston Meyer: That was not a great. We always try and sync up and it always fails over Google Meets.

[00:00:27] Katie Dooley: Because we're not together. But I am excited because we have Dr. Wes Thiessen here to talk about Sharia law and probably a bunch of other religious studies topics too, because he knows a lot of stuff. Welcome, Wes.

[00:00:41] Wes Thiessen: Well, thanks, Katie, I'm delighted to be here. This is so exciting to be able to meet with you and talk about these things.

[00:00:47] Katie Dooley: I mean, we like having religious conversations, and anyone who's willing to join us is a friend of ours.

[00:00:53] Wes Thiessen: I like having religious conversations, too. So it's going to be pretty exciting. And I don't very often have them with people that are outside of my current circles.

[00:01:06] Katie Dooley: Okay, well, this is going to be good. I'm just going to quickly read Dr Wes's bio so that we can get into the meat of it. Dr Wes Thiessen is a conflict resolution practitioner and a certified mediator. Born and raised in the city of Calgary. Dr Thiessen began his mediation training in BC following an undergraduate degree in psychology and theological studies and a master's in Historical Geography of the Ancient Near East, and studied in Jerusalem. He worked both inside and outside the justice system to resolve conflicts in many forms family, spousal, assault and property crime. He later completed a PhD in Islamic history after spending over another decade in North Africa. This life experience and education assist Wes in better understanding conflict with cultural and/or religious elements. In this practice, he assists families in conflict, employment conflict, and neighborhood disputes. He especially loves to help people resolve their differences to build better relationships with us. Wes has four children and five grandchildren and is also a part-time pastor of a rural church.

[00:02:10] Wes Thiessen: Katie, I should have read that whole thing over because it's actually outdated.

[00:02:14] Katie Dooley: Oh well, tell us what's the update?

[00:02:17] Wes Thiessen: I have six grandchildren, not just five.

[00:02:21] Katie Dooley: Congrats.

[00:02:21] Preston Meyer: Congratulations.

[00:02:23] Wes Thiessen: Yeah, the last one was born in September, so obviously that bio hasn't been updated since September.

[00:02:29] Katie Dooley: Well, now now it's updated. He has six grandchildren. Everyone. So first question...