Is He Caliphied?

Explicit content warning

03/13/23 • 40 min

What qualifies a man to lead the Ummah? Islam, like any religious tradition, is not monolithic. Let's explore the history of schisms and the personalities behind them in the early Islamic period. After Muhammad's death in 632 CE, there was a succession crisis; for some, it was a bigger crisis than for others.

The first to be elected to take over leadership was Abu Bakr, the prophet's father-in-law. For decades, the followers of Muhammad were fairly united, until one of his sons-in-law, Ali ibn Abi Talib, took over as the fourth caliph. This was followed by a great schism between what would come to be known as the Sunni and Shia Muslims.

The Shia have splintered further since the 7th century: The Ismailis adhere to inheritance of a lost son, and the Twelvers hope for the return of a mysterious claim of a hidden child.

Despite the many schisms that established the disunity of Islamic thought, there is much that they retain in common.

We also explore the traditions that fuel the authoritarian fundamental extremists that so many are rightly worried about.

All this and more...

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The Shia have splintered further since the 7th century: The Ismailis adhere to inheritance of a lost son, and the Twelvers hope for the return of a mysterious claim of a hidden child.

Despite the many schisms that established the disunity of Islamic thought, there is much that they retain in common.

We also explore the traditions that fuel the authoritarian fundamental extremists that so many are rightly worried about.

All this and more...

Support us at Patreon and Spreadshirt

Join the Community on Discord

Learn more great religion facts on Facebook and Instagram

Previous Episode

THOTs & Prayers

Sex and sexuality among believers isn't as monolithic as you might think, and of course there's the outlying "bad actors" to keep this spectrum broad.

The Torah has some strict rules about who Jewish men should avoid, but isn't too quick to prescribe punishment for premarital sex. The Christian New Testament has some rules about minding your own business. Islamic tradition has some strong words about oral sex. And so much more....

The word 'abomination' gets a brief exploration, the sort of thing you might not expect.

Marianismo is a growing problem among religious communities, though it's been around for a long time, too. We also explore "purity culture" and the "Madonna-Whore" complex of Freudian fame.

The Dharmic religions have another angle on sexuality, and the Buddha encourages the faithful to avoid such attachments.

The sexy theme of the month wouldn't be complete if we didn't take a quick look at the Kama Sutra.

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[00:00:00] Katie Dooley: Hey everyone, trigger warning on this episode there will be some sexual assault content.

[00:00:18] Preston Meyer: You also don't know how to start this episode.

[00:00:20] Katie Dooley: Nope. Sure don't because it's awkward. It's like that sex talk with your parents, but it's that sex talk with your friend.

[00:00:28] Preston Meyer: That's fair.

[00:00:29] Katie Dooley: I'm Katie.

[00:00:30] Preston Meyer: Hi, I'm Preston.

[00:00:32] Katie Dooley: And this is...

[00:00:33] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon podcast.

[00:00:36] Katie Dooley: We're kicking it up a notch. We talked about Saint Valentine a couple weeks ago. Now we're talking about sex.

[00:00:43] Preston Meyer: Yeah, we're done with the courtship, and now we're into the exciting bit.

[00:00:46] Katie Dooley: But not with each other.

[00:00:49] Preston Meyer: Yes. Important details.

[00:00:52] Katie Dooley: We're just friends, listeners, if you've ever wondered.

[00:00:57] Preston Meyer: Both married to other people.

[00:00:59] Katie Dooley: Yes.

[00:01:00] Preston Meyer: Well, it's there's there's a lot of people that that's not a barrier for, but...

[00:01:05] Katie Dooley: Fair. It is for our monogamous Protestant relationships.

[00:01:11] Preston Meyer: Yeah.

[00:01:13] Katie Dooley: But nonetheless, we're gonna have a sex talk.

[00:01:16] Preston Meyer: Yep. A lot of religions are very strict on sexual purity. Of course, there's a spectrum. You've got some Christians who are way into free love. Don't get too close to your pastor. If he's really encouraging free love. Um, you're probably in a danger cult.

[00:01:40] Katie Dooley: Um, yes. Most religions think that sex should only be between a married man and his wife. Female wife. Yeah.

[00:01:51] Preston Meyer: Wife does imply female, but.

[00:01:53] Katie Dooley: Well, you know.

[00:01:54] Preston Meyer: You know, there's some, uh. Ambiguity now, and that's people are going to do what they're going to do.

[00:02:01] Katie Dooley: And people going to fuck what they want to fuck.

[00:02:03] Preston Meyer: Yeah. Uh, but there are rules depending on who you hang out with.

[00:02:08] Katie Dooley: Yeah, depending on what your sky daddy says and the people that interpret that.

[00:02:14] Preston Meyer: Yes.

[00:02:19] Katie Dooley: Uh, wow. Well, I feel like a kid again.

[00:02:22] Preston Meyer: Let's let's take a look at the the judaist tradition, that premarital sex is really not a huge deal according to the Torah. There's no strong verbiage banning it. Obviously, it's not encouraged. That's just not something we find in Scripture. I guess.

[00:02:45] Katie Dooley: But You're not going to burn in hell forever for it.

[00:02:47] Preston Meyer: Right? I mean, the idea of burning in hell for having sex feels fully ludicrous. But a lot of churche...

Next Episode

Breaking (Down) the Law - an Interview with Dr. Wes Thiessen

Dr. Wes Thiessen isn't just a great storyteller, he's a conflict resolution expert, and he's here to tell us about Sharia Law, its history, its real world function in Muslim communities, and why it shouldn't make anybody nervous.

Islam is not monolithic, and neither is the study of law. The Golden Rule is extremely important in most legal cases, and the way it's applied in most cases deserves credit, as we'll hear Wes explain.

Living and working throughout the "Muslim World," Dr. Wes has a lot of experience that we find useful for "understanding the other," and building better relationships across what many prefer to see as boundaries.

We also look at the legal background of the extremist groups that are causing trouble for Muslims and their neighbours all around the globe.

This interview continues on Patreon

You can WATCH this interview on YouTube

Connect with Dr. Wes on Instagram or Facebook, or check out his website: UnderstandingTheOther.com

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Other links for Islam in Alberta:

Al-Rashid Mosque, Edmonton

Islamic Information Society of Calgary

For other Islamic connections local to you, we'd be happy to connect you.

[00:00:11] Katie Dooley: Hi, Preston.

[00:00:12] Preston Meyer: Hi, Katie.

[00:00:14] Katie Dooley: I am very excited for today's episode of

[00:00:17] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon Podcast.

[00:00:21] Preston Meyer: That was not a great. We always try and sync up and it always fails over Google Meets.

[00:00:27] Katie Dooley: Because we're not together. But I am excited because we have Dr. Wes Thiessen here to talk about Sharia law and probably a bunch of other religious studies topics too, because he knows a lot of stuff. Welcome, Wes.

[00:00:41] Wes Thiessen: Well, thanks, Katie, I'm delighted to be here. This is so exciting to be able to meet with you and talk about these things.

[00:00:47] Katie Dooley: I mean, we like having religious conversations, and anyone who's willing to join us is a friend of ours.

[00:00:53] Wes Thiessen: I like having religious conversations, too. So it's going to be pretty exciting. And I don't very often have them with people that are outside of my current circles.

[00:01:06] Katie Dooley: Okay, well, this is going to be good. I'm just going to quickly read Dr Wes's bio so that we can get into the meat of it. Dr Wes Thiessen is a conflict resolution practitioner and a certified mediator. Born and raised in the city of Calgary. Dr Thiessen began his mediation training in BC following an undergraduate degree in psychology and theological studies and a master's in Historical Geography of the Ancient Near East, and studied in Jerusalem. He worked both inside and outside the justice system to resolve conflicts in many forms family, spousal, assault and property crime. He later completed a PhD in Islamic history after spending over another decade in North Africa. This life experience and education assist Wes in better understanding conflict with cultural and/or religious elements. In this practice, he assists families in conflict, employment conflict, and neighborhood disputes. He especially loves to help people resolve their differences to build better relationships with us. Wes has four children and five grandchildren and is also a part-time pastor of a rural church.

[00:02:10] Wes Thiessen: Katie, I should have read that whole thing over because it's actually outdated.

[00:02:14] Katie Dooley: Oh well, tell us what's the update?

[00:02:17] Wes Thiessen: I have six grandchildren, not just five.

[00:02:21] Katie Dooley: Congrats.

[00:02:21] Preston Meyer: Congratulations.

[00:02:23] Wes Thiessen: Yeah, the last one was born in September, so obviously that bio hasn't been updated since September.

[00:02:29] Katie Dooley: Well, now now it's updated. He has six grandchildren. Everyone. So first question...