Apes Together Strong

Explicit content warning

08/15/22 • 66 min

Fascism has earned an ugly name over the last century, no question about it. Some religions lean into it, some look forward to a day when it can be openly celebrated, especially in monotheistic traditions. This week, we're exploring what it really means to be inside, to see fascism differently than what history has shown us. Straight out of the mouths of Benito Mussolini and Francisco Franco, we examine the difficulty in defining fascism, and why some Christians are taking advantage of that obscurity.

We get a little help from Umberto Eco and Stanley Payne in our efforts to delineate the nature of the beast, but few organizations hit all the landmarks--watch out for the ones that do. Ultimately, when it comes to religious groups throwing their hats in with the fascists, as we see all around the world today, it's up to every good person to stand against these fundamentalist authoritarian parties while it's still safe to do so.

All this and more....

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Sinclair Lewis: “When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross”
[00:00:01] Katie Dooley: I felt like you were gonna inject something else there.

[00:00:18] Preston Meyer: We don't usually record this early.

[00:00:21] Katie Dooley: Yeah, I thought you were going to say something. You did.

[00:00:23] Preston Meyer: Yeah.

[00:00:24] Katie Dooley: Yeah. No, we don't record this early. And you can tell on this episode of.

[00:00:31] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon Podcast

[00:00:35] Katie Dooley: Everyone can hear our morning voices.

[00:00:36] Preston Meyer: Yum, yum.

[00:00:39] Katie Dooley: We're ready to roll.

[00:00:40] Preston Meyer: We'll see.

[00:00:42] Katie Dooley: So last episode we talked about.

[00:00:45] Preston Meyer: Communism.

[00:00:45] Katie Dooley: Communism. Why are we talking about this episode?

[00:00:48] Preston Meyer: Today we're going to talk about fascism.

[00:00:50] Katie Dooley: The opposite.

[00:00:52] Preston Meyer: I mean, they're not opposites. They're on two different spectrums. Communism is an economic policy that leans into politics in other ways. A little bit. Fascism is a governmental style that occasionally includes economic policies. And just like last time when we talked about communism, we brought it around to validate its presence on our podcast. And fascism does a really good job of pushing its way into the religious sphere.

[00:01:28] Katie Dooley: I was gonna say it's like self-validating.

[00:01:31] Preston Meyer: Uh, the vast majority of Christians are patiently waiting for a world where everybody will kneel at the throne of a single God, one that is painted as darkly totalitarian in several Christian traditions. And this looks a little bit fascist in some situations. So before we get into what that looks like in the religious sphere, I think we do need to talk about fascism in general. And if we're not describing you personally, we're probably not talking about you. A lot of people get their heckles up about fascism. It's a word that gets used as a weird pejorative. An awful lot more than it should. Yeah, a lot of people just don't like the word fascism because, you know, the fascists were the enemies during the Second World War. And that's actually the only association that a lot of people have with the word is fascists are the bad guys without any understanding why. So very few.

[00:02:32] Katie Dooley: To the point where some people don't even realize that they themselves are a fascist.

[00:02:35] Preston Meyer: Correct. Because they don't understand the word. They don't recognize what it means.

[00:02:40] Katie Dooley: I think Steve Rogers would really be really upset with the state of America right now.

[00:02:44] Preston Meyer: That definitely played into his representation in the MCU that when we first see him, he's got the star on, he's got the stripes. His second movie, the Winter soldier....

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Sinclair Lewis: “When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross”
[00:00:01] Katie Dooley: I felt like you were gonna inject something else there.

[00:00:18] Preston Meyer: We don't usually record this early.

[00:00:21] Katie Dooley: Yeah, I thought you were going to say something. You did.

[00:00:23] Preston Meyer: Yeah.

[00:00:24] Katie Dooley: Yeah. No, we don't record this early. And you can tell on this episode of.

[00:00:31] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon Podcast

[00:00:35] Katie Dooley: Everyone can hear our morning voices.

[00:00:36] Preston Meyer: Yum, yum.

[00:00:39] Katie Dooley: We're ready to roll.

[00:00:40] Preston Meyer: We'll see.

[00:00:42] Katie Dooley: So last episode we talked about.

[00:00:45] Preston Meyer: Communism.

[00:00:45] Katie Dooley: Communism. Why are we talking about this episode?

[00:00:48] Preston Meyer: Today we're going to talk about fascism.

[00:00:50] Katie Dooley: The opposite.

[00:01:28] Katie Dooley: I was gonna say it's like self-validating.

[00:02:32] Katie Dooley: To the point where some people don't even realize that they themselves are a fascist.

[00:02:35] Preston Meyer: Correct. Because they don't understand the word. They don't recognize what it means.

[00:02:40] Katie Dooley: I think Steve Rogers would really be really upset with the state of America right now.

Previous Episode

The Man in Red

Religious communism isn't just for the weird new cult that bought up a farm down the road. People often forget, especially in the west, that Christianity was strictly communist in the first century, and that the Jewish nation from which they were born enjoyed a tightly regulated, moderately socialist dictatorship. Join us for an exploration of these and other groups who decided not to put arbitrary economic qualifications on "Love your neighbour."

Socialism isn't the bogeyman vaguely remembered from the Cold War--those governing parties used the title without admiring or espousing the core principle: common ownership of all goods and services. Religious groups often do a much better job of applying socialist and communist principles; but, like the "Second World," they tend to lean heavily into authoritarianism, the real enemy of freedom.

We take a look at Communal cults, hippie communes, ancient Hellenic and Vedic communal groups, and of course Christian groups--not just the Anabaptists, but the Latter-day Saints (Mormons), too. We also talk about some of the big Christian thinkers that have influenced western culture on the subject before the rise of Leninism.

All this and more....

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Ep 48 The Man in Red

[00:00:10] Katie Dooley: I just need to reach the limit to know.

[00:00:12] Preston Meyer: Pretty confident it's not going to happen in regular dialogue.

[00:00:15] Katie Dooley: Yeah, we'd have to get pretty passionate about this. Hey, Preston. Nope.

[00:00:24] Preston Meyer: It needs to be right over that leg. Otherwise, it's coming down.

[00:00:27] Katie Dooley: That's what she said.

[00:00:30] Preston Meyer: Hi, Katie.

[00:00:33] Katie Dooley: Hi, Preston.

[00:00:36] Preston Meyer: Oh, man. What are we doing?

[00:00:40] Katie Dooley: What are we doing today? Sharing the wealth.

[00:00:43] Preston Meyer: Wealth of knowledge on the...

[00:00:45] Both Speakers: Holy Watermelon podcast!

[00:00:49] Preston Meyer: It's a bit of a stretch, but here we are.

[00:00:51] Katie Dooley: We could share other wealth, too.

[00:00:52] Preston Meyer: Sure. If I had someone to share.

[00:00:56] Katie Dooley: That's fair.

[00:00:59] Preston Meyer: Uh, yeah. Today we're going to talk about communism and socialism more broadly.

[00:01:05] Katie Dooley: Cue the Soviet national anthem, please.

[00:01:11] Preston Meyer: Uh, but this is not an economics podcast. So we're going to focus more on how this sort of nonsense gets tied to religion. And when I say nonsense, I mean people's reactions to communism.

[00:01:25] Katie Dooley: Or even that we look to our religious leaders to make political or economic decisions for us. In this day and age blows my mind. I guess it's a residual from a time when you would have. But you don't need to ask your priest who to vote for politically anymore. You can decide that for yourself.

[00:01:44] Preston Meyer: Right? Yeah. No. The church I belong to is fairly diverse, and there's people on both sides of this political divide.

[00:01:53] Katie Dooley: I think in most religions there's people on both sides of the economic political divide.

[00:02:01] Preston Meyer: In the good ones, I would expect so. But if there's anything that makes the conservative religious crowd freak out as much as allowing personal autonomy for women and homosexuals and anybody who isn't the straight white dude in charge, basically, it's the idea of communism. And I mean, all the best cults lean pretty hard into communism.

[00:02:30] Katie Dooley: I mean, yeah!

[00:02:31] Preston Meyer: Join our little farm and everything's gonna be dandy.

[00:02:34] Katie Dooley: Com-- here, words, guy. Did you know communism and commune come from the same root word?

[00:02:40] Preston Meyer: I'm not the tiniest bit surprised. This is what I fully expected.

[00:02:46] <...

Next Episode

Masonic Religion

Freemasonry, the oldest fraternal organization in the world, has some deeply rooted religious traits, and an odd don't-ask-don't-tell relationship with the Church of Rome. The national mythology of the whole democratic world celebrates men who have been initiated into its sacred rites, and countless exposés have been published, yet there's still an awful lot of secrecy and misinformation.

Is Freemasonry a cult? Does it even qualify as a religion?

The Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of Alberta will help shed some light on the subject.

Freemasonry is democratic all the way to the core, and only half of the legitimate Grand Lodges claim jurisdiction over entire countries; the other half stick to provincial and "state" boundaries. A friendly relationship exists between the vast majority of these Grand Lodges (as long as they have legitimate claim to authority in that region), but there is no global Masonic authority.

Despite many centuries of rich Masonic history, the United Grand Lodge of England was established in 1813, and the earlier Grand Lodge from which it claims authority doesn't have much evidence of being founded in 1717....

All this and more....

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[00:00:13] Katie Dooley: Hi Preston! Are we starting this episode?

[00:00:15] Preston Meyer: Yeah. We'll start.

[00:00:16] Katie Dooley: Okay. Hi, Preston.

[00:00:18] Preston Meyer: Hi, Katie.

[00:00:19] Katie Dooley: Today. I mean, you're a subject matter. You're always a subject matter expert.

[00:00:23] Preston Meyer: I mean, we've talked a lot about a lot of things over the last couple of years that have been stuff that I know a lot from research rather than experience. Today is a lot more experienced stuff, a lot closer to home.

[00:00:38] Katie Dooley: I like it. What are we talking about today on.

[00:00:40] Both Speakers: The Holy Watermelon Podcast?

[00:00:44] Preston Meyer: Today we're talking about Freemasonry.

[00:00:46] Katie Dooley: But that's not a religion.

[00:00:48] Preston Meyer: Well, that depends on who you ask.

[00:00:50] Katie Dooley: That depends how you define religion.

[00:00:52] Preston Meyer: Yes

[00:00:52] Katie Dooley: Please see episode two.

[00:00:56] Preston Meyer: Ah, yeah. For a lot of people who don't know much on the subject, mostly, that's a fair label for those people. Freemasonry is not only a religion, but a dangerous cult.

[00:01:10] Katie Dooley: I was going to say it's a cult. It's a link to the Illuminati and the lizard people.

[00:01:15] Preston Meyer: I mean, half right. It is linked to the Illuminati, not to the lizard people.

[00:01:19] Katie Dooley: Is it because lizard people don't exist?

[00:01:21] Preston Meyer: Correct.

[00:01:22] Katie Dooley: Okay. I... Freemasonry is funny because anytime I've visited a lodge on. I mean, usually it's like an open house sort of thing. They're always very open about who they are, what they do.

[00:01:37] Preston Meyer: Right? The buildings are marked. It's not like we're some secret underground organization. The Square and Compass, the well-known icon for the organization, is on the outside of every building we own.

[00:01:50] Katie Dooley: Mhm. Yeah. If you go in at the right time, they'll tell them all about you.

[00:01:55] Preston Meyer: Sure.

[00:01:55] Katie Dooley: And they know how to party.

[00:01:56] Preston Meyer: Yeah.

[00:01:59] Katie Dooley: Highly recommend.

[00:02:01] Preston Meyer: Yeah, especially for the annual communication every Grand Lodge has, where they have as many Masons as are willing to come to one central location within the jurisdiction. Chill out at a hotel, drink late into the night, whiskey connoisseurs everywhere, or Scotch or whatever. There's, you know, diverse people, diverse tastes, whatever.

[00:02:24] Katie Dooley: So i...