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HILF: History I'd Like to F**k - HILF 29 - The Donner Party, Part 2 with Andy Kraft

HILF 29 - The Donner Party, Part 2 with Andy Kraft

Explicit content warning

12/28/22 • 75 min

5 Listeners

HILF: History I'd Like to F**k

In the previous episode [The Donner Party Part 1] Dawn and her guest, Andy Kraft climbed aboard with The Donner Party wagon-train as they begin their ill-fated journey West. We met some of the most prominent individuals including George Donner - after whom the sad collective is named. Also James Reed, who tragically murdered his friend, John Snyder and was subsequently banished. He left, promising his wife and children he would do everything he could to be reunited and save them.

00:05:30 - When we left off, The Donner Party had just reunited with the hero, C.T. Stanton - a single, childless man who had ridden ahead of the party months earlier to get help and supplies. His return provided much needed food and comfort, but it proved to be yet another nail in the coffin as it delayed their attempt to cross the summit before a huge snow storm.

00:11:07 - After several attempts to cross the summit with the mules, the Party realizes that they simply cannot make the passing the snow. Instead, they will be slaughtered in the morning, the meat prepared - and then they're all going out on foot before the snow comes... but that very night a snow storm begins that lasts 8 days. The animals are dead and lost beneath the snow and everyone is suddenly oh-so-much more desperate.

They're divided into two camps about seven miles apart from one another. Sixty are at Truckee Lake - nine men over eighteen, twelve women, and twenty-nine were children, six of whom were toddlers or younger. The other camp, at Alder Creek, has twenty-one people: six men, three women, and twelve children in all.

00:17:38 - Realizing that the situation was going to lead to inevitable starvation, they decided that the strongest individuals among them would make snowshoes, and attempt to walk to Sutter's Fort in California. If they could make it, they would raise the alarm and return with help. Some call them "The Snowshoe Party", others "The Forlorn Hope". There were fifteen of them: five women, nine men and one twelve-year old boy.

00:29:52 - It has been mutually determined among the members of The Forlorn Hope that starvation was imminent and that 'should one of them die, the others might live.' They were the first among The Donner Party to resort to cannibalism when: "“The men finally mustered up the courage to approach the dead”.

00:37:07 - BREAK - Check out the podcast Story Worthy by Christine Blackburn.

00:38:20 - The First Relief Party arrives at Donner Lake on February 1847. It’s bad. Of the sixty-five people who were left there when The Forlorn Hope left (two months prior), thirteen people have died, leaving about thirty survivors. They have not *apparently* started eating each other yet. Twenty-one leave with the rescuers: six adults, six children under ten-years-old, nine children who are ten-fourteen-years-old.

They have a hell of a trek to safety and three die on the way back. One adult (John Denton), Ada Keseberg (3), William Hook (12, fatally gorges himself when they finally get to food.

0042:30 - Incredibly James Reed meets the First Relief Party as they're returning and not only reunites with his wife, but provides them much-needed supplies after their caches were destroyed. He then continues back down to Donner Lake only to discover a scene significantly more disastrous than when last they were contacted.

The Second Relief takes with them seventeen people: three adults, two teenagers, and twelve children between nine and one-year-olds. On the way back, three people die, two five-year-old children and a forty-year-old woman. Most of the children are carried out by one guy - John Stark.

01:02:14 -After two more relief parties, the last group to go to Donner lake, are less of a relief, than a 'retrieve'. They arrive on April 10th - It had been a month since the 3rd Relief had left.

The first thing they see - there are bodies and body parts EVERYWHERE: Skulls, legs, fragments. Mrs. Murphy is lying there with a leg sawed off and the saw still lying next to her. Mrs. Donner is dead and partly devoured in Keseberg’s Cabin, but he is gone and they see a fresh set of tracks leading to the Donner Cabin. Soon, Keseberg is found walking back carrying much of the Donner’s money.

01:06:06 - Here is the final head-count (so to speak) of the survivors and victims of the Party: Of the 87 who took the notorious Cut-off, about 42 died. What do you think of those odds?

---

HAPPY NEW YEAR! Next new episode: February 1st, 2023

**We are moving. It's just across town - not as harrowing as The Donner Party move - but a big ol' time-sucking pain in the ass so we're taking January off.

---

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In the previous episode [The Donner Party Part 1] Dawn and her guest, Andy Kraft climbed aboard with The Donner Party wagon-train as they begin their ill-fated journey West. We met some of the most prominent individuals including George Donner - after whom the sad collective is named. Also James Reed, who tragically murdered his friend, John Snyder and was subsequently banished. He left, promising his wife and children he would do everything he could to be reunited and save them.

00:05:30 - When we left off, The Donner Party had just reunited with the hero, C.T. Stanton - a single, childless man who had ridden ahead of the party months earlier to get help and supplies. His return provided much needed food and comfort, but it proved to be yet another nail in the coffin as it delayed their attempt to cross the summit before a huge snow storm.

00:11:07 - After several attempts to cross the summit with the mules, the Party realizes that they simply cannot make the passing the snow. Instead, they will be slaughtered in the morning, the meat prepared - and then they're all going out on foot before the snow comes... but that very night a snow storm begins that lasts 8 days. The animals are dead and lost beneath the snow and everyone is suddenly oh-so-much more desperate.

They're divided into two camps about seven miles apart from one another. Sixty are at Truckee Lake - nine men over eighteen, twelve women, and twenty-nine were children, six of whom were toddlers or younger. The other camp, at Alder Creek, has twenty-one people: six men, three women, and twelve children in all.

00:17:38 - Realizing that the situation was going to lead to inevitable starvation, they decided that the strongest individuals among them would make snowshoes, and attempt to walk to Sutter's Fort in California. If they could make it, they would raise the alarm and return with help. Some call them "The Snowshoe Party", others "The Forlorn Hope". There were fifteen of them: five women, nine men and one twelve-year old boy.

00:29:52 - It has been mutually determined among the members of The Forlorn Hope that starvation was imminent and that 'should one of them die, the others might live.' They were the first among The Donner Party to resort to cannibalism when: "“The men finally mustered up the courage to approach the dead”.

00:37:07 - BREAK - Check out the podcast Story Worthy by Christine Blackburn.

00:38:20 - The First Relief Party arrives at Donner Lake on February 1847. It’s bad. Of the sixty-five people who were left there when The Forlorn Hope left (two months prior), thirteen people have died, leaving about thirty survivors. They have not *apparently* started eating each other yet. Twenty-one leave with the rescuers: six adults, six children under ten-years-old, nine children who are ten-fourteen-years-old.

They have a hell of a trek to safety and three die on the way back. One adult (John Denton), Ada Keseberg (3), William Hook (12, fatally gorges himself when they finally get to food.

0042:30 - Incredibly James Reed meets the First Relief Party as they're returning and not only reunites with his wife, but provides them much-needed supplies after their caches were destroyed. He then continues back down to Donner Lake only to discover a scene significantly more disastrous than when last they were contacted.

The Second Relief takes with them seventeen people: three adults, two teenagers, and twelve children between nine and one-year-olds. On the way back, three people die, two five-year-old children and a forty-year-old woman. Most of the children are carried out by one guy - John Stark.

01:02:14 -After two more relief parties, the last group to go to Donner lake, are less of a relief, than a 'retrieve'. They arrive on April 10th - It had been a month since the 3rd Relief had left.

The first thing they see - there are bodies and body parts EVERYWHERE: Skulls, legs, fragments. Mrs. Murphy is lying there with a leg sawed off and the saw still lying next to her. Mrs. Donner is dead and partly devoured in Keseberg’s Cabin, but he is gone and they see a fresh set of tracks leading to the Donner Cabin. Soon, Keseberg is found walking back carrying much of the Donner’s money.

01:06:06 - Here is the final head-count (so to speak) of the survivors and victims of the Party: Of the 87 who took the notorious Cut-off, about 42 died. What do you think of those odds?

---

HAPPY NEW YEAR! Next new episode: February 1st, 2023

**We are moving. It's just across town - not as harrowing as The Donner Party move - but a big ol' time-sucking pain in the ass so we're taking January off.

---

Instagram/Facebook -

Previous Episode

undefined - HILF 28 - The Donner Party with Andy Kraft

HILF 28 - The Donner Party with Andy Kraft

Dawn's guest is actor and writer, Andy Kraft. He is a longtime friend and colleague - together they've done everything from romantic comedies on screen, to portraying water droplets on stage. Andy can be seen in countless commercials, episodes of television (including the final episode of Brooklyn nine-nine) and is the hand up the bum of some of your favorite puppets!

00:07:44 - Andy explains why he chose the subject of The Donner Party.His total ignorance of the subject (is it NOT the Dahmer Party?) ultimately made it the HILF of the day and, of course, Dawn loves a History Virgin.

00:13:36 - The Donner Party began, as almost all wagon trains going West did at the time - on the Oregon Trail. This infamous trail inspired a similarly infamous game that was very popular in the mid 80's... if you didn't die, you won! But you probably died... There is a new version of the game for Switch, if you can believe it.

00:18:53 - The Who-is-who of The Donner Party: We are introduced to the people who begin with the wagon train in Missouri, what brought them there, and what there expectations were going forward. Everything starts out fairly well with Mrs. Donner even writing a letter home that says, "“Indeed, if I do not experience something far worse than I have yet done, I shall say the trouble is all in getting started.”

00:23:50 - Because things are going so well as they set out, the Donner Party begins to take interest in a rumor of a shortcut. The so-called Hastings Cut-off, purported by legendary frontiersman, Lansford Hastings, proves a tempting option. Ultimately they take a vote and about 90 of the party take the road oh-so-much less traveled.

BREAK

00:32:07 - In October of 1846, The Donner Party finds themselves weeks behind schedule and with an increasingly hazardous route unfolding before them. After cutting paths through thick brush and hard terrain, they then face the crossing of The Great Salt Dessert - and they already are running out of food and water. See the map!

00:37:04 - In light of how FUCKING BAD things are going, the group selects two individuals, Stanton and McCutchen, to ride ahead to California to alert them to their plight and possibly bring back help and supplies. Shortly after they leave, things progressively get worse for everybody - and then there is the first murder.

00:39:39 - Dawn gives the details of the murder of John Snyder and the resulting exile of James Reed.

00:53:38 - There is the first death by starvation/exposure (Hardcoop) and one disappearance and suspected murder (Wolfinger). Just as the party is beginning to really accept the possibility that all is lost, Stanton returns! Not only does he have much-needed supplies, but he is also in the company of two Indian guides to lead them the rest of the way.

The Donner Party takes a sigh of relief - but it turns out the worst had only just begun...

---

Come back for the thrilling conclusion the HILF of the The Donner Party - it will be an episode you can really sink your teeth into.

---

Instagram/Facebook - @hilfpodcast

Email - [email protected]

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Next Episode

undefined - HILF 30 - Nikola Tesla with Renee Percy

HILF 30 - Nikola Tesla with Renee Percy

3 Recommendations

Dawn welcome's Canadian-born, LA-based comedian - Renee Percy. Together, they have an electrifying conversation about the scientist, Nikola Tesla, who is to thank for so much of our technological advances today... no matter what you drive.

00:06:37 - Renee tells Dawn about why she doesn't "know history" and how the subject of Nikola Tesla occurred to her and he-hem sparked her curiosity.

00:11:40 - Dawn lays out some of the sources of her research and lays out her plan for HILF-ing Tesla. She's going to layout the story behind some of Tesla's biggest and most influential inventions - and then fill us in on all the bat-shit speculation and conspiracy theories that surrounded him after his death.

SOURCES:

00:13:48 - Dawn jumps into the story of how Tesla first conceived of the idea of AC Power and how it led first to a humiliating moment in front of his college classmates - to an epiphany while watching a sunset.

00:18:42 - Nikola Tesla leaves Europe for New York City and after a harrowing journey (he is pick-pocketed and finds himself in the middle of a violent mutiny...) he arrives in the middle of The Gilded Age. It's a booming era when the pillars of wealth and industry really come into their own: JP Morgan, Rockefeller, Canegie - and they're all looking for the next big thing.

00:25:30 - After a disappointing six months with Thomas Edison (spit) Tesla quits after feeling unappreciated and insulted. He first digs ditches and then goes into business with some enterprising guys who help him show his genius to money men who would actually support him. Westinghouse buys into AC Power and Tesla starts to come into his own.

00:30:50 - The introduction of AC Power was a huge threat to Edison who had invested not only in DC Power, but in all of the supportive infrastructure around it. If AC were to replace his systems, he'd be ruined - and as soon as people saw how much demonstrably better it was, they would choose it every time. A war ensues. THE CURRENT WAR. Edision first tries to scare people away from AC power by hosting public electricutions of animals. When that doesn't work - he joins with another competitor to form General Electric.

00:34:36 - For a time, it appears that AC Power had won the war - which it had! Westinghouse and Tesla win the contracts to both light the 1893 World's Fair in Chicago - and they design the hydro-electric plant at Niagara Falls. Tesla is rich, famous, and on top of the world... for now.

---BREAK---

00:37:53 - Dawn and Renee come back from the break having just come out of a conversation about the fuckary in showbusiness; and Dawn explains how such fuckary is the same kinda thing that one endures in the world of science. In fact, the artists process and the scientific process are not now - nor have they ever been - that different.

00:41:32 - Because Tesla was barking up the same money-trees as many of the leading artists of the time, he made the acquaintance of both Mark Twain and Sarah Berhardt - he captured both of their attention but it was only Twain with whom he made and held a date...

00:48:24 - Tragedy strikes in 1894 when Tesla's lab in New York City burns to the ground. It is impossible to calculate what was lost, but Tesla is heartbroken and after getting financial backing from J.J Astor - he builds a new lab in Colorado Springs and does some of his largest-scale experiments ever. He loses his funding after not delivering the promised inventions and it is all torn down by 1906.

00:56:28 - His second failed attempt with a mill...

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