Log in

goodpods headphones icon

To access all our features

Open the Goodpods app
Close icon
Fixing Healthcare Podcast - FHC #54: The incredible rulebreakers of medicine’s past

FHC #54: The incredible rulebreakers of medicine’s past

06/06/22 • 38 min

Fixing Healthcare Podcast

Author and historian Dr. Lindsey Fitzharris is fascinated with medicine’s grisly past and the extraordinary physicians who changed the profession by breaking the rules.

One of those rule-breaking doctors of yore is the protagonist of her newest book, The Facemaker: A Visionary Surgeon’s Battle to Mend the Disfigured Soldiers of World War I (available June 7). In it, Dr. Fitzharris tells the riveting and true tale of Sir Harold Gillies, a pioneering reconstructive and plastic surgeon.

Set against the backdrop of the first World War, the book takes place in a time when military technology was radically outpacing the science of medicine. The machines of war were ravaging human bodies. And so, Gillies, a Cambridge-educated New Zealander, dedicated his career to picking up the pieces, rebuilding the broken and burned faces of frontline heroes. Along the way, the surgeon didn’t just break the rules of medicine. He rewrote them.

This interview, the first since the book’s publication, pairs Fitzharris with hosts Jeremy Corr and Dr. Robert Pearl—the latter is, himself, a reconstructive and plastic surgeon who has published two highly acclaimed books on medicine.

Interview Highlights

On plastic surgery 100+ years ago

“It wasn’t really until the First World War that there was this huge need suddenly for facial reconstruction. And that had to do with the brutality and savagery of this kind of war. This was a time when losing a limb made you a hero, but losing a face made you a monster to a society that was largely intolerant of facial differences. So Gillies really filled in there to help these men, and to mend their faces and their broken spirits.”

On advances in war vs. advances in medicine

“[There were] so many advances in weaponry at this time that a company of just 300 men in 1914 could deploy equivalent fire power to a 60,000 strong army during the Napoleonic war. You have the invention of the flame thrower, the invention of tanks. You have chemical warfare at this time. So really the medical community was just playing catch up when all of this began. And there was this huge need to figure out how to mend these broken bodies.”

On what made Gillies unique among his surgical peers

“Harold Gillies, what is extraordinary about him is that he’s a very creative individual. He’s one of those annoying people that’s good at everything he does. He’s a competent artist. He’s a great sportsman. And that creative aspect to his personality served him very well going into reconstructive surgery. He’s also very collaborative. He’s willing to work with other technicians and practitioners at this time.”

On Gillies’ ethical conflict as a wartime doctor

“One of the terrible tensions for Gillies in World War I was the fact that he had a duty to his patients, but he also had a duty to the army. And so, in some instances, I’m sure he would’ve wanted to continue working on the reconstructive process, but perhaps the function had been returned to the face. And the feeling was that the man could be returned back to the trenches. And I think that was a really heartbreaking tension that played out throughout the war for him.”

On staying positive in terrible circumstances

“Gillies’ attitude, this positive attitude, and the way he could look at the humorous side of things, really served him well because he had such a heavy burden on his shoulders. If you imagine the psychological damage as well to these men coming into the hospital, I think he was really able to nurse them in many ways, not just fixing their faces, but he was able to fix their spirits.”

On what connects history’s greatest rulebreakers

“I think that the biggest trait is perseverance. When you look at Joseph Lister, he could have given up quite easily in the face of the pushback because he received enormous pushback when he started to champion germ theory ... And it was a huge leap of faith, but he persevered. Also with Gillies after the war, he could have just given up and gone back to his old practice ... But he really believed that what he was doing was transformative, that it was important, that it would serve humanity beyond the war.”

READ: Full transcript with Lindsey Fitzharris

* *

Dr. Robert Pearl is the author of a book about medicine’s invisible yet highly influential...

plus icon
bookmark

Author and historian Dr. Lindsey Fitzharris is fascinated with medicine’s grisly past and the extraordinary physicians who changed the profession by breaking the rules.

One of those rule-breaking doctors of yore is the protagonist of her newest book, The Facemaker: A Visionary Surgeon’s Battle to Mend the Disfigured Soldiers of World War I (available June 7). In it, Dr. Fitzharris tells the riveting and true tale of Sir Harold Gillies, a pioneering reconstructive and plastic surgeon.

Set against the backdrop of the first World War, the book takes place in a time when military technology was radically outpacing the science of medicine. The machines of war were ravaging human bodies. And so, Gillies, a Cambridge-educated New Zealander, dedicated his career to picking up the pieces, rebuilding the broken and burned faces of frontline heroes. Along the way, the surgeon didn’t just break the rules of medicine. He rewrote them.

This interview, the first since the book’s publication, pairs Fitzharris with hosts Jeremy Corr and Dr. Robert Pearl—the latter is, himself, a reconstructive and plastic surgeon who has published two highly acclaimed books on medicine.

Interview Highlights

On plastic surgery 100+ years ago

“It wasn’t really until the First World War that there was this huge need suddenly for facial reconstruction. And that had to do with the brutality and savagery of this kind of war. This was a time when losing a limb made you a hero, but losing a face made you a monster to a society that was largely intolerant of facial differences. So Gillies really filled in there to help these men, and to mend their faces and their broken spirits.”

On advances in war vs. advances in medicine

“[There were] so many advances in weaponry at this time that a company of just 300 men in 1914 could deploy equivalent fire power to a 60,000 strong army during the Napoleonic war. You have the invention of the flame thrower, the invention of tanks. You have chemical warfare at this time. So really the medical community was just playing catch up when all of this began. And there was this huge need to figure out how to mend these broken bodies.”

On what made Gillies unique among his surgical peers

“Harold Gillies, what is extraordinary about him is that he’s a very creative individual. He’s one of those annoying people that’s good at everything he does. He’s a competent artist. He’s a great sportsman. And that creative aspect to his personality served him very well going into reconstructive surgery. He’s also very collaborative. He’s willing to work with other technicians and practitioners at this time.”

On Gillies’ ethical conflict as a wartime doctor

“One of the terrible tensions for Gillies in World War I was the fact that he had a duty to his patients, but he also had a duty to the army. And so, in some instances, I’m sure he would’ve wanted to continue working on the reconstructive process, but perhaps the function had been returned to the face. And the feeling was that the man could be returned back to the trenches. And I think that was a really heartbreaking tension that played out throughout the war for him.”

On staying positive in terrible circumstances

“Gillies’ attitude, this positive attitude, and the way he could look at the humorous side of things, really served him well because he had such a heavy burden on his shoulders. If you imagine the psychological damage as well to these men coming into the hospital, I think he was really able to nurse them in many ways, not just fixing their faces, but he was able to fix their spirits.”

On what connects history’s greatest rulebreakers

“I think that the biggest trait is perseverance. When you look at Joseph Lister, he could have given up quite easily in the face of the pushback because he received enormous pushback when he started to champion germ theory ... And it was a huge leap of faith, but he persevered. Also with Gillies after the war, he could have just given up and gone back to his old practice ... But he really believed that what he was doing was transformative, that it was important, that it would serve humanity beyond the war.”

READ: Full transcript with Lindsey Fitzharris

* *

Dr. Robert Pearl is the author of a book about medicine’s invisible yet highly influential...

Previous Episode

undefined - CTT #61: Is the Covid-19 pandemic over? Is a monkeypox pandemic next?

CTT #61: Is the Covid-19 pandemic over? Is a monkeypox pandemic next?

About a month ago, Dr. Anthony Fauci said that the United States is “out of the pandemic phase,” but he later clarified that the country is, “out of the full-blown explosive pandemic phase.” Americans are decreasingly concerned about the distinction, as only 9% believe Covid-19 still represents “a serious crisis.” What’s the official status of the Covid-19 pandemic now?

Meanwhile, several listeners wrote into the show with concerns about a recent outbreak of monkeypox, with 10 cases now confirmed in the United States and hundreds in Europe. The W.H.O. warns it could be just “the peak of the iceberg.” Is a new pandemic coming?

Jeremy Corr and Dr. Robert Pearl examine these questions and many others in this episode of Coronavirus: The Truth. You’ll find all the [time stamped] topics discussed during this show here:

[00:49] Each show begins with the most recent and relevant facts concerning the Covid-19 pandemic and its impact on American life. What’s happening and what does it mean?

[04:45] Worldwide Covid-19 deaths have surpassed 15 million. Why?

[06:36] Looking at China: What went wrong?

[08:37] What is the U.S. doing about the global toll of Covid-19?

[09:55] Is the Covid-19 pandemic over yet or not?

[15:11] What should parents know about Covid-19 now?

[17:46] Does Paxlovid (the new oral medication) eradicate the Covid-19 disease?

[20:22] Will unvaccinated people take Covid-19 medications once infected?

[21:34] Based on new research, how many Americans would have lived if all were vaccinated?

[23:38] Is it safer to host a small indoor event or a large outdoor one?

[25:49] Listener question: Is monkey pox like COVID? Should I be worried?

[28:16] For immunity, is Covid-19 infection ever better than vaccination?

[32:37] What’s the big non-Covid story in healthcare this month?

[34:25] Will the government try to drive lower prices and greater healthcare access?

This episode is available on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify and other podcast platforms.

If you have coronavirus questions for the hosts, please visit the contact page or send us a message on Twitter or LinkedIn.

*To ensure the credibility of this program, Coronavirus: The Truth refuses to accept sponsorship, outside funding sources or guests with any financial or personal conflicts of interest.

The post CTT #61: Is the Covid-19 pandemic over? Is a monkeypox pandemic next? appeared first on Fixing Healthcare.

Next Episode

undefined - FHC #55: Is it time for doctors to temper their career expectations?

FHC #55: Is it time for doctors to temper their career expectations?

Said ZDoggMD: “Oh, man, OK. You said, hey, let’s do a podcast together, Z. It’ll be fun, you said. It’ll be easy. It’ll be flow. Then you ask a question like this?” Replied Robert Pearl, MD: “It’s easy for me to ask the questions, Zubin. That’s what I meant.”

Welcome to Unfiltered, a show that brings together two iconic voices in healthcare for an unscripted, hard-hitting half hour of talk. In this episode, Dr. Pearl wastes no time getting serious with Dr. Damania (ZDoggMD). The two talk about the unseen forces holding healthcare back. These invisible elements including tribalism, bias, fear, inertia, hierarchical struggles and a cowboy culture that all combine to harm patients, increase medical errors and prevent high-functioning teamwork.

A little history on the show: Prior to Unfiltered, Dr. Robert Pearl had twice appeared on The ZDoggMD Show (see: here and here) opposite Dr. Zubin Damania, who had twice appeared on the Fixing Healthcare podcast with Pearl, alongside cohost Jeremy Corr (see: here and here).

For more, press play or peruse the transcript below.

* *

Fixing Healthcare is a co-production of Dr. Robert Pearl and Jeremy Corr. Subscribe to the show via Apple Podcasts or wherever you find podcasts. Join the conversation or suggest a guest by following the show on Twitter and LinkedIn.

UNFILTERED TRANSCRIPT

Jeremy Corr:

Welcome to Unfiltered, our newest program on our weekly Fixing Healthcare podcast series. Joining us each month as Dr. Zubin Damania, known to many as ZDoggMD. For 25 minutes, he and Robbie will engage in unscripted and hard-hitting conversation about art, politics, entertainment, and much more. As nationally recognized physicians and healthcare policy experts, they’ll apply the lessons they extract to medical practice. Then I’ll pose a question for the two of them as a patient based on what I’ve heard. Robbie, why don’t you kick it off.

Robert Pearl:

It’s amazing, Zubin, how fast a month passes. Feels like we just recording last month’s Unfiltered episode yesterday, and here we are recording the new one.

Zubin Damania:

The dirty secret, Robbie, that I’ve learned as I got older is the older you get, the shorter time feels because it’s a smaller portion of your overall life. For me, it’s like the days just go click, click, click, click, click, and then we’re doing another one. It’s kind of nuts.

Robert Pearl:

It’s just a question. When you’re having fun, time passes rapidly.

Zubin Damania:

Oh, the flow state argument?

Robert Pearl:

Yeah. Yeah.

Zubin Damania:

Yes. There’s that as well. There’s that as well.

Robert Pearl:

I thought of you the other day. I was talking with an ER physician and an ER nurse. They were passionate about patient safety and frustrated by how difficult it was to make systemic improvements. They reached out to me wanting my thoughts and advice on how to get people to do what seemed so logical: save lives. They pointed out the extensive research that had been done on the topic of safety, going all the way back to Ralph Nader, the car industry, aviation history. I acknowledged the frustration they felt. I talked with them about a personal experience. Chronicles my first book, Mistreated, about my father’s premature death from preventable medical error. I offered my view that when logical things don’t happen, like systemic improvements for patient safety, there’s always another factor, one that’s either not visible or not being considered. I said that based on my experience, you can’t solve the problem staring you in the face without bringing the other one out from the shadow and addressing it. If it’s okay with you, Zubin, I’d like to learn from your insights about what’s not being seen o...

Episode Comments

Generate a badge

Get a badge for your website that links back to this episode

Select type & size
Open dropdown icon
share badge image

<a href="https://goodpods.com/podcasts/fixing-healthcare-podcast-89193/fhc-54-the-incredible-rulebreakers-of-medicines-past-21421568"> <img src="https://storage.googleapis.com/goodpods-images-bucket/badges/generic-badge-1.svg" alt="listen to fhc #54: the incredible rulebreakers of medicine’s past on goodpods" style="width: 225px" /> </a>

Copy