Post-Growth Economics with Donnie MacLurcan

03/08/23 • 57 min

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This conversation investigates the fundamental challenges of a capitalism and outlines a vision for a post-growth economy that better achieves a just, sustainable society. Our guest, Donnie MacLurcan, is the founder and Executive Director of the Post Growth Institute. He's one of the most brilliant thinkers we've met on new economics.

In this episode Jenny and Donnie discuss:

Defining post-growth economics [2:23]
Distinction between capitalism and market economies [6:23]
Capitalism, accumulation, and debt [7:32]
Debt and money creation [10:04]
Capitalism and debt accumulation [17:51]
One planet lifestyles [20:31]
Ecological limits, technology and Jevon's Paradox [22:23]
Manfred Max-Neef, Maslow's heirarchy and universal needs [24:24]
Defining a full circle economy [26:40]
Circularity and indigenous cultures [27:43]
Nonprofits vs. not-for profit [29:30]
Prevalance of not-for-profit enterprise around the world [31:27]
Industrial foundations [36:34]
The problem with co-ops [38:18]
Transitioning to a post-growth economy [40:28]
Asset based community development [41:01]
Post-growth economics and geopolitics [45:43]
Sources for hope [49:32]

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In this episode Jenny and Donnie discuss:

Defining post-growth economics [2:23]
Distinction between capitalism and market economies [6:23]
Capitalism, accumulation, and debt [7:32]
Debt and money creation [10:04]
Capitalism and debt accumulation [17:51]
One planet lifestyles [20:31]
Ecological limits, technology and Jevon's Paradox [22:23]
Manfred Max-Neef, Maslow's heirarchy and universal needs [24:24]
Defining a full circle economy [26:40]
Circularity and indigenous cultures [27:43]
Nonprofits vs. not-for profit [29:30]
Prevalance of not-for-profit enterprise around the world [31:27]
Industrial foundations [36:34]
The problem with co-ops [38:18]
Transitioning to a post-growth economy [40:28]
Asset based community development [41:01]
Post-growth economics and geopolitics [45:43]
Sources for hope [49:32]

Previous Episode

Steward Ownership with Derek Razo and Camille Canon

Steward ownership is one of the single most important concepts to understand for those interested in reforming capitalism. Whereas all other models of corporate governance that seek to integrate purpose co-ops, public benefit corporations, B Corps, and PBLLCs leave intact a fundamental tension between purpose and profit, steward ownership instantiates profit in service of purpose in a way that is legally binding. Steward ownership is where the keys to the castle lie if we are interested in market economy that addresses the fatal flaws of capitalism as we know it.

Our guest for this episode are Derek Razo and Camille Canon, co-founders of Purpose US, a consultancy supporting companies looking to adopt steward owned governance models.

In this conversation Jenny, Derek, and Camille discuss:

What is steward ownership? [4:41]
Steward ownership vs. other familiar corporate governance models [6:50]
Channels for profit in steward owned and other governance models [10:29]
Importance of legally binding structures in reforming the economy [11:27]
Value clarifying purpose amongst stakeholders [12:10]
Steward ownership and securing purpose across multiple generations of leaders / protecting purpose against capture by any particular group's interests [13:01]
Rethinking the definition of ownership [16:05]
How steward ownership binds governance rights to purpose [18:37]
Checks and balances to limit extraction with steward ownership [20:30]
Legacy of steward owned models around the world [22:43]
Camille and Derek's ladder of legal security for purpose driven governance [24:16]
Entity types and legal forms for steward ownership [31:15]
Steward ownership models vs. non-profits [33:29]
Challenges accessing finance [35:13]
Overcoming the growth stage financing gap without losing control [38:00]
Innovative financing models [39:02]
Founder leverage and alternative deal structures [40:24]
The Purpose Futures Fellowship for fund managers [42:52]
Steward ownership and DAOs [49:48]
Web3 and new sources of liquidity [52:58]
Current state of steward ownership interest and adoption [54:54]

‍Resources

Steward Ownership: Rethinking Ownership in the 21st century A handbook outlining steward ownership
Can Companies Force Themselves To Do Good? A feature in The New Yorker Magazine
The Patagonia Structure in the Context of Steward-Ownership

Next Episode

Grief with Carla Fernandez

Our guest for this episode is Carla Fernandez, co-founder of The Dinner Party, a platform for young adults who have lost someone close to them. The Dinner Party now operates in over 100 cities around the world and has been featured in media outlets such as NPR, CNN, and the New York Times. Carla is also a designer, facilitator, and strategist whose work brings creativity, joy, and connection to the roots of our most intractable problems. She is also currently writing a book called Renegade Grief.

In this episode Jenny and Carla discuss:

Carla's experience losing her father [4:53]
Jenny's reflections on losing her parents [8:37]
Grief, public heath, and policy [13:43]
Grief vs. trauma when someone close to you dies [16:00]
Lessons in self-compassion [18:23]
The impact of the decline of religion on grieving [21:34]
Death and forgiveness [22:06]
The Dinner Party and its learnings [25:44]
The importance of community and relationships as a foundation for systems change [33:20]
Grief and growth [38:36]
Accepting death and living intentionally [41:46]
Discomfort with difficult emotional experiences [46:29]
Interconnection and grief [47:17]
Carla's upcoming book, Renegade Grief [53:22]

Resources