
Denizen
Jenny Stefanotti
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Top 10 Denizen Episodes
Goodpods has curated a list of the 10 best Denizen episodes, ranked by the number of listens and likes each episode have garnered from our listeners. If you are listening to Denizen for the first time, there's no better place to start than with one of these standout episodes. If you are a fan of the show, vote for your favorite Denizen episode by adding your comments to the episode page.

04/19/23 • 46 min
Donnie Maclurcan returns in this episode to discuss the radical, embodied practices he employs as Executive Director of the Post Growth Institute. Learn how PGI uses an asset-based approach, sociocratic governance, and lean processes to create trust, safety, and virtuous cycles. Recorded live in San Francisco, Donnie and Jenny discuss PGI's cutting edge practices such as silent meetings, a long hiring process, a policy of "no shit work", rest week, defining ones own pay rates, and much more. It's a provocative, eye opening conversation that should not be missed.
Covered in this episode:
- Origin story of the Post Growth Institute [2:28]
- PGI's asset based approach [5:37]
- How PGI employs being over doing [11:53]
- Silent meetings [16:02]
- No shit work [19:33]
- Starting meetings [23:39]
- Embodied response [27:19]
- Defining one's own pay rates [30:35]
- Harmony restoration [34:44]
- Rest week [38:44]
- Sociocracy and decision making at PGI [30:05]
Resources:
- Appreciative Inquiry
- The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know is Possible, Charles Eisenstein
- Sociocracy for All
To stay connected to all things Denizen, you can sign up for our newsletter at www.becomingdenizen.com. There we share our latest content alongside community events, educational opportunities, and announcements from our many partner organizations.
2 Listeners

07/12/23 • 67 min
This episode comes along side of the launch of Tobias Rose-Stockwell's book Taming The Outrage Machine: How Technology Amplifies Discontent, Disrupts Democracy -- And What We Can Do About It. Tobias is an author, designer, and media researcher who has been working at the forefront of this topic for many years.
By investigating media's role in information flows throughout history, Tobias' book brings clarity and fresh insights to the role social media plays in society today. In this conversation Jenny and Tobias distill the book's most salient points for the Denizen audience.
Outline of the discussion:
- The role of outrage in democratic governance [4:00]
- Technological disruptions and the dark valley [10:04]
- Martin Luther and the printing press [10:52]
- The impact of the first advertising based newspaper [14:04]
- The advent of modern journalism [18:16]
- The relationship between distribution costs and editorial incentives [22:10]
- Television and the impact of repealing the Fairness Doctrine [23:45]
- The role of human psychology and cognitive biases [27:17]
- The three design features that changed everything: the algorithmic feed [31:09]
- The three design features that changed everything: social metrics [33:54]
- The three design features that changed everything: the one click share [37:13]
- Economic incentives and multi-polar traps[41:47]
- The role of government and design vs. content level regulation [43:41]
- Hope from a historical example: radio [48:54]
- Intervention points: the individual [53:52]
- Intervention points: social media platforms [56:06]
- Intervention points: policy [59:57]
- A word of caution about decentralized social media [1:01:41]
- The speed of technological progress vs. the speed of regulatory response [1:03:10]
To stay connected to all things Denizen, you can sign up for our newsletter at www.becomingdenizen.com. There we share our latest content alongside community events, educational opportunities, and announcements from our many partner organizations.
1 Listener

02/12/25 • 68 min
This episode builds on many prior conversations exploring work that we can do on ourselves, including living authentically, trauma and the nervous system, nonviolent communication, transforming relational conflict, and optimal zone resilience. It demonstrates how the work on ourselves extends upwards into the organization context, and further amplifies our impact at a systemic level.
In this conversation Jenny and Diana discuss:
- What Diana means by conscious when she refers to conscious leadership
- Being above or below the line: reacting from fear vs. responding from trust
- The four different types of consciousness from which we might lead: to me, by me, through me, and as me
- Taking radical responsibility
- Staying curious and growing in self-awareness
- The problem with wanting to be right
- Our relationship with our stories and willingness to consider the opposite is equally true
- The importance of feeling our feelings and seeing their value
- Why candor and safe emotional spaces are essential
- Why gossip is pernicious and the how judgement reveals our shadows
- Integrity, both with ourselves and with others
- Making clear agreements using a whole body yes
- How to handle broken agreements
- Regarding all circumstances of life as an opportunity to learn and grow
- Moving from scarcity to abundance with a commitment to experiencing having enough of everything
- Committing to win for all solutions
- Operating from our zones of genius and realizing our full potential
- Being the resolution rather than assigning blame to others
- The importance of rest and play
- Subconscious commitments
Resources:
- The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership
- The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership: A New Paradigm for Sustainable Success, Jim Dethmer, Diana Chapman, and Kaley Warner Klemp
- The Conscious Leadership Group
- WholeBodyYes.com
- Conscious Loving: The Journey To Co-Commitment, Gay Hendricks, Ph.D. and Kathlyn Hendricks, Ph.D.
- Terrance Real: https://terryreal.com/
- Man's Search For Meaning, Viktor Frankl
- Existential Kink: Unmask Your Shadow and Embrace Your Power, Carolyn Elliott, Ph.D.
To stay connected to all things Denizen, you can sign up for our newsletter at www.becomingdenizen.com. There we share our latest content alongside community events, educational opportunities, and announcements from our many partner organizations.
1 Listener

Grief with Carla Fernandez
Denizen
03/15/23 • 58 min
Our guest for this episode is Carla Fernandez, co-founder of The Dinner Party, a platform for young adults who have lost someone close to them. The Dinner Party now operates in over 100 cities around the world and has been featured in media outlets such as NPR, CNN, and the New York Times. Carla is also a designer, facilitator, and strategist whose work brings creativity, joy, and connection to the roots of our most intractable problems. She is also currently writing a book called Renegade Grief.
In this episode Jenny and Carla discuss:
- Carla's experience losing her father [4:53]
- Jenny's reflections on losing her parents [8:37]
- Grief, public heath, and policy [13:43]
- Grief vs. trauma when someone close to you dies [16:00]
- Lessons in self-compassion [18:23]
- The impact of the decline of religion on grieving [21:34]
- Death and forgiveness [22:06]
- The Dinner Party and its learnings [25:44]
- The importance of community and relationships as a foundation for systems change [33:20]
- Grief and growth [38:36]
- Accepting death and living intentionally [41:46]
- Discomfort with difficult emotional experiences [46:29]
- Interconnection and grief [47:17]
- Carla's upcoming book, Renegade Grief [53:22]
Resources
- The Dinner Party
- The Smell of Rain on Dust: Grief and Praise, Martin Prechtel
- The Grieving Brain: The Surprising Science of How We Learn from Love and Loss, Mary-Frances O'Connor
- Walking Each Other Home: Conversations on Loving and Dying, Ram Dass and Mirabai Bush
- I'm Glad My Mom Died, Jennette McCurdy
- Limitless with Chris Hemsworth (final episode is about death)
- Facing the Climate Emergency: How to Transform Yourself with Climate Truth, Margaret Klein Salamon
To stay connected to all things Denizen, you can sign up for our newsletter at www.becomingdenizen.com. There we share our latest content alongside community events, educational opportunities, and announcements from our many partner organizations.
1 Listener

12/06/22 • 38 min
Charles is the author of several books, including The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible and Sacred Economics. His work spans multiple pillars of the Denizen Inquiry, including economics, culture, and consciousness.
In this episode, Charles and Jenny discuss gift economics, a very different model of exchange than capitalism. In a gift economy, goods and services are given away as gifts without an explicit agreement on giving anything in return. This does not mean there is no financial exchange -- in many cases, the consumer opts into paying an amount that is determined at their discretion after the good or service has been received.
Gift economies are moderated by social norms and were the dominant form of exchange in many indigenous cultures. Critically, gift economies are circular and relational as opposed to a transactional, and thus present a compelling example of a non-extractive economic model that is more aligned with natural law.
This episode covers:
- Why gift models more aligned with human nature [4:40]
- How gift economies induce gratitude and reciprocity [7:21]
- The essential cultural component of gift economies [12:06]
- Why the gift is a natural model for digital goods[13:24]
- How gift economies engender circularity vs. hoarding [15:38]
- Intellectual property and the collective inheritance of humanity [22:00]
- Charles' experience stepping into a gift model in his own work [26:20]
- Implementing a gift model [29:53]
- The circular, relational vs. transactional nature of gift economies [32:00]
- How the circularity of gift economies mimic nature [32:47]
- Navigating boundaries between gift and market economies [34:18]
- Synchronicity and the gift [36:50]
Resources
- The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know is Possible, Charles Eisenstein
- Sacred Economics, Charles Eisenstein
- The Gift, Lewis Hyde
To stay connected to all things Denizen, you can sign up for our newsletter at www.becomingdenizen.com. There we share our latest content alongside community events, educational opportunities, and announcements from our many partner organizations.
1 Listener

01/29/25 • 74 min
Ethnocide is a word Barrett both coined and resurrected, referring to the destruction of a people’s culture while keeping the people. From Barrett’s point of view, Trump’s re-election is not cause for disbelief, but a glaring reminder of what America has been since its inception: a country founded by white men for the purposes of wealth accumulation, whose rhetoric of freedom and equality has always been tenuous alongside its prevalence of white supremacy and patriarchy.
In this conversation Jenny and Barrett discuss:
- Why Trump's re-election did not surprise Barrett and how it reflects something fundamental about American politics
- The bad faith and lies underlying American democracy
- The distinction between freedom from and freedom with
- The importance of language in addressing systemic oppression
- What ethnocide means and its origin
- Capitalism and ethnocide
- Existentialism and the notions of existence vs. essence
- White essence in the United States
- What identity means to Barrett
- Why the Hegelian dialectic and critical theory are essential to understand and combat ethnocide
- What culture means to Barrett
- Ethnogenesis: creating and birthing culture
- Barrett's Altars of American project: a ritual to combat ethnocide
- Eŭ-topia: a sustainable, good, nurturing place
- How we can transcend systemic oppression by cultivating Eŭ-topian spaces
Resources:
- The Crime Without A Name: Ethnocide and the Erasure of Culture in America
- The Sustainable Culture Lab
- Half Has Never Been Told: Slavery and the Making of American Capitalism
To stay connected to all things Denizen, you can sign up for our newsletter at www.becomingdenizen.com. There we share our latest content alongside community events, educational opportunities, and announcements from our many partner organizations.
1 Listener

03/08/23 • 57 min
This conversation investigates the fundamental challenges of a capitalism and outlines a vision for a post-growth economy that better achieves a just, sustainable society. Our guest, Donnie MacLurcan, is the founder and Executive Director of the Post Growth Institute. He's one of the most brilliant thinkers we've met on new economics.
In this episode Jenny and Donnie discuss:
- Defining post-growth economics [2:23]
- Distinction between capitalism and market economies [6:23]
- Capitalism, accumulation, and debt [7:32]
- Debt and money creation [10:04]
- Capitalism and debt accumulation [17:51]
- One planet lifestyles [20:31]
- Ecological limits, technology and Jevon's Paradox [22:23]
- Manfred Max-Neef, Maslow's heirarchy and universal needs [24:24]
- Defining a full circle economy [26:40]
- Circularity and indigenous cultures [27:43]
- Nonprofits vs. not-for profit [29:30]
- Prevalance of not-for-profit enterprise around the world [31:27]
- Industrial foundations [36:34]
- The problem with co-ops [38:18]
- Transitioning to a post-growth economy [40:28]
- Asset based community development [41:01]
- Post-growth economics and geopolitics [45:43]
- Sources for hope [49:32]
To stay connected to all things Denizen, you can sign up for our newsletter at www.becomingdenizen.com. There we share our latest content alongside community events, educational opportunities, and announcements from our many partner organizations.
1 Listener

03/01/23 • 58 min
Steward ownership is one of the single most important concepts to understand for those interested in reforming capitalism. Whereas all other models of corporate governance that seek to integrate purpose co-ops, public benefit corporations, B Corps, and PBLLCs leave intact a fundamental tension between purpose and profit, steward ownership instantiates profit in service of purpose in a way that is legally binding. Steward ownership is where the keys to the castle lie if we are interested in market economy that addresses the fatal flaws of capitalism as we know it.
Our guest for this episode are Derek Razo and Camille Canon, co-founders of Purpose US, a consultancy supporting companies looking to adopt steward owned governance models.
In this conversation Jenny, Derek, and Camille discuss:
- What is steward ownership? [4:41]
- Steward ownership vs. other familiar corporate governance models [6:50]
- Channels for profit in steward owned and other governance models [10:29]
- Importance of legally binding structures in reforming the economy [11:27]
- Value clarifying purpose amongst stakeholders [12:10]
- Steward ownership and securing purpose across multiple generations of leaders / protecting purpose against capture by any particular group's interests [13:01]
- Rethinking the definition of ownership [16:05]
- How steward ownership binds governance rights to purpose [18:37]
- Checks and balances to limit extraction with steward ownership [20:30]
- Legacy of steward owned models around the world [22:43]
- Camille and Derek's ladder of legal security for purpose driven governance [24:16]
- Entity types and legal forms for steward ownership [31:15]
- Steward ownership models vs. non-profits [33:29]
- Challenges accessing finance [35:13]
- Overcoming the growth stage financing gap without losing control [38:00]
- Innovative financing models [39:02]
- Founder leverage and alternative deal structures [40:24]
- The Purpose Futures Fellowship for fund managers [42:52]
- Steward ownership and DAOs [49:48]
- Web3 and new sources of liquidity [52:58]
- Current state of steward ownership interest and adoption [54:54]
Resources
- Steward Ownership: Rethinking Ownership in the 21st century A handbook outlining steward ownership
- Can Companies Force Themselves To Do Good? A feature in The New Yorker Magazine
- The Patagonia Structure in the Context of Steward-Ownership
To stay connected to all things Denizen, you can sign up for our newsletter at www.becomingdenizen.com. There we share our latest content alongside community events, educational opportunities, and announcements from our many partner organizations.
1 Listener

12/06/22 • 64 min
We all know about all the things that are wrong with social media as we know it. It's a model where everything is centralized and the market dynamics foster very few competitors who just get bigger and have more power. Who builds? Who governs? Who owns? Where are the servers? Where do the applications sit? Where does the data live? It's largely in just a few companies that in many cases have walled gardens of content. This dominant model yields a tremendous centralization of power for tech executives who are incentivized by market dynamics, to grow and to extract and to capture more and more of our attention. So, how do we get ourselves out of this mess? Does the answer lie in decentralized social media?
Our guest for this episode is Evan Henshaw-Plath, veteran Silicon Valley engineer and CEO of Planetary, a decentralized social network.
In this episode we cover all things decentralized social media, including:
- The story of Twitter's "original sin" where it abandoned a federated model for a centralized one [4:14]
- A framework to think about decentralization across the Internet and social media [12:22]
- Distinctions between web3 and the dWeb (decentralized web) [15:18]
- What a protocol is, why it’s a core element of decentralized social media, and the current landscape of protocols [15:33, 23:37]
- Architecture and design considerations at protocol vs. app levels [28:39]
- Big debates in the decentralized social media space [31:31]
- Issues with blockchain based solutions [36:28]
- Evan’s vision for decent social media and what he’s up to with his startup, Planetary [38:56]
Resources:
- Denizen's writeup on decentralized social media
- Planetary's homepage
- Evan's homepage
- What obligation do social media platforms have to the greater good: A TED Talk by Eli Pariser
- My first impressions of web3: by Moxie Marlinspike, who founded Signal
- The Battle for the Soul of the Web, The Atlantic Oct 2022
- dWeb principles
- Web3 is Self-Certifying: by Jay Graber, the CEO of Twitter's spinout Bluesky
To stay connected to all things Denizen, you can sign up for our newsletter at www.becomingdenizen.com. There we share our latest content alongside community events, educational opportunities, and announcements from our many partner organizations.
1 Listener

Trust with Davion Ziere
Denizen
03/29/23 • 69 min
In this episode we're exploring a foundational topic: trust. Our guest Davion Ziere, known as Zi, has been thinking deeply about this topic for years. He's even written a yet to be published book on it. Davion is co-director of Mobius, founder of an online community marketplace called Origyn, a recording artist, and student of many indigenous traditions. This is the first of a two part series exploring Zi's work.
In this conversation Jenny and Zi touch on:
- Trust and grief [2:54]
- Defining trust [5:31]
- Trust in pre-modern cultures [8:10]
- Learning from Zi's study of indigenous groups in Hawaii, Peru, and the Amazon [13:30]
- Why trust is a root issue to address [17:00]
- Trust of self [19:59]
- Defining self worth [26:09]
- Restoring trust and the importance of truth [30:04]
- The importance of listening [41:51]
- The first law of thermodynamics [44:05]
- Zi's values around trust [45:47]
- Moving from transaction to trust [56:08]
- Redefining ownership [57:26]
Resources
- Braiding Sweetgrass, Robin Wall Kimmerer
- Building Trust: In Business, Politics, Relationships, and Life, Fernando Flores and Robert Solomon
- The Truth about Trust: How It Determines Success in Life, Love, Learning, and More, David DeSteno
To stay connected to all things Denizen, you can sign up for our newsletter at www.becomingdenizen.com. There we share our latest content alongside community events, educational opportunities, and announcements from our many partner organizations.
1 Listener
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FAQ
How many episodes does Denizen have?
Denizen currently has 55 episodes available.
What topics does Denizen cover?
The podcast is about Culture, Society & Culture, Capitalism, Justice, Podcasts, Economics, Technology, Consciousness and Politics.
What is the most popular episode on Denizen?
The episode title 'Embodied Leadership with Donnie Maclurcan' is the most popular.
What is the average episode length on Denizen?
The average episode length on Denizen is 60 minutes.
How often are episodes of Denizen released?
Episodes of Denizen are typically released every 9 days, 21 hours.
When was the first episode of Denizen?
The first episode of Denizen was released on Dec 2, 2022.
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