#24 — The Conscious Brain Evolved with David Edelman, Jay Giedd & Mark Mitton

11/22/22 • 43 min

The home of the late Nobel Laureate, Gerald Edelman, is the setting for this elevated discussion on human consciousness. In this episode, Bernie is joined by Gerald's son and neuroscientist David Edelman, developmental neuropsychiatrist Dr. Jay Giedd, and professional magician Mark Mitton.

What level of biology is relevant to the study of conscious processing? Is it a matter of molecules? Or cells? Or networks?

Talking Points

0:00 – The Biological Level of the Conscious Brain
6:28 – Like Evolution, Consciousness is Highly Adaptive
12:27 – Like Magic, Inductive Science is Highly Adaptive and Full of Surprises
18:05 – How Magic Plays With The Limited Capacity of the Conscious Brain
23:18 – The Hippocampus and Amygdala are Two Evolved Structures of the Brain
28:39 – Deception and Self Deception Create Mismatches Between Reality and Expectations
36:25 – The Immune System and the Brain Are Both Highly Adaptable

Links

— Website and Social Media —

Show Notes: Ep #24 Full Summary

Website: https://bernardbaars.com/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BernardJBaars

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BernardJBaars/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernardjbaars/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/OnConsciousnesswithBernardBaars

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/baarslab/?hl=en

— David Edelman, PhD —

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-edelman-b5b16315/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/doctorocto

Elsevier: https://www.elsevier.com/connect/contributors/david-edelman-phd

— Jay Giedd, PhD —

University of California, San Diego: https://profiles.ucsd.edu/jay.giedd

Doximity: https://www.doximity.com/pub/jay-giedd-md

Brain and Behavior Foundation: https://www.bbrfoundation.org/about/people/jay-n-giedd-md-0

— Mark Mitton —

Personal Website: http://markmitton.com/index.html

Twitter: https://twitter.com/mark_mitton?lang=en

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-mitton-4204696/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/markmittonmagic/?hl=en

What level of biology is relevant to the study of conscious processing? Is it a matter of molecules? Or cells? Or networks?

Talking Points

0:00 – The Biological Level of the Conscious Brain
6:28 – Like Evolution, Consciousness is Highly Adaptive
12:27 – Like Magic, Inductive Science is Highly Adaptive and Full of Surprises
18:05 – How Magic Plays With The Limited Capacity of the Conscious Brain
23:18 – The Hippocampus and Amygdala are Two Evolved Structures of the Brain
28:39 – Deception and Self Deception Create Mismatches Between Reality and Expectations
36:25 – The Immune System and the Brain Are Both Highly Adaptable

Links

— Website and Social Media —

Show Notes: Ep #24 Full Summary

Website: https://bernardbaars.com/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BernardJBaars

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BernardJBaars/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernardjbaars/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/OnConsciousnesswithBernardBaars

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/baarslab/?hl=en

— David Edelman, PhD —

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-edelman-b5b16315/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/doctorocto

Elsevier: https://www.elsevier.com/connect/contributors/david-edelman-phd

— Jay Giedd, PhD —

University of California, San Diego: https://profiles.ucsd.edu/jay.giedd

Doximity: https://www.doximity.com/pub/jay-giedd-md

Brain and Behavior Foundation: https://www.bbrfoundation.org/about/people/jay-n-giedd-md-0

— Mark Mitton —

Personal Website: http://markmitton.com/index.html

Twitter: https://twitter.com/mark_mitton?lang=en

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-mitton-4204696/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/markmittonmagic/?hl=en

Previous Episode

#23 — Global Workspace Theory (GWT) and Prefrontal Cortex: Recent Developments (Baars et al., 2021)

We think of the cortex in terms of anatomical regions, but the cortex works as a whole. Static, gross anatomical divisions are superseded by the dynamical connectome of cortex.

This holistic viewpoint is detailed in the recent paper in the Journal Frontiers in Psychology: Consciousness Research, titled "Global Workspace Theory & Prefrontal Cortex: Recent Developments" (Baars, Geld & Kozma, 2021), which we discuss in this episode.

A wide range of experimental and theoretical studies in the field of consciousness emphasize the complex and rapid interactivity of numerous regions and connectivities in the cerebral cortex. That dynamical view of the cortex should give us pause about proposing dichotomies that may not be in evidence. This paper aims to clarify some empirical questions that have been raised, and review evidence that the prefrontal and posterior regions of the brain support dynamic global workspace functions, in agreement with several other authors.

Our special guest for Episode 23 is Dr. Robert Kozma, professor and director of the Center for Large-Scale Integrated Optimization and Networks (CLION) at the FedEx Institute of Technology, and professor of Mathematics in the Department of Mathematical Sciences at the University of Memphis. Ilian Daskalov, our student interviewer, joins us to explore this recent paper on GWT and Prefrontal Cortex.

To follow along with this discussion, here is the link to the source paper: Baars, B. J., Geld, N., & Kozma, R. (2021). Global Workspace Theory (GWT) and Prefrontal Cortex: Recent Developments. Frontiers in Psychology, 12, 5163. https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.749868

Talking Points

0:00 – Intro
4:04 – Divisions between PfC and other neuronal regions tend to be misleading.
5:57 – Global Workspace Theory: An Overview
10:23 – The Role of Metaphors in Science
15:37 – Consciousness is the Dynamic Core of the Brain.
21:44 – Unifying Principles of the Global Workspace “Family” of Theories
30:59 – What is “Binding” and “Broadcasting” in the Brain?
34:39 – What did Raccah et al. (2021) Get Wrong about GWT?
43:22 – What is Neuropercolation Theory?
58:12 – Conscious and Unconscious Metacognition
01:07:07 – The Dynamical Connectome of Cortex
01:12:01 – Functional Rich Clubs (FRICs) by Deco et al. (2021): Part of GW “Family”
01:17:30 – Final Thoughts

Links & Publications

— Website and Social Media —

Episode Summary: https://bernardbaars.com/episode-23

Website:https://bernardbaars.com/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BernardJBaars

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BernardJBaars/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernardjbaars/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/OnConsciousnesswithBernardBaars

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/baarslab/?hl=en

— Robert Kozma, Ph.D. —

University of Memphis: https://www.memphis.edu/msci/people/rkozma.php

CLION: https://www.memphis.edu/clion/

IEEE: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/author/37284339400

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kozma

Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=Nddbg2gAAAAJ&hl=en

PubMed Publications: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=Kozma%2C%20Robert

Neuropercolation Theory (PDF): https://escholarship.org/content/qt2qn4778j/qt2qn4778j.pdf

Link to paper by Deco et al. (2021): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-01003-6

Next Episode

#25 — Human Consciousness and AI: What Does the Future Hold? with Susan Schneider and Rachel St. Clair

In this episode, we examine Human Consciousness and AI, and particularly the popular idea that AI will become conscious at some point.

Because conscious brains are the product of enormous periods of evolution and environmental conditions that keep changing in basic ways, the popular idea that machine consciousness is just around the corner is questioned by Bernard Baars. But very important ethical and practical questions are already emerging today.

Social media has trouble distinguishing between human messages and bots, and we are already seeing AI being used in armed drones in a major European war in the Ukraine. All kinds of important ethical and practical questions are already facing the world. In some ways, this is like the early days of nuclear weapons - people around the world are wondering what the new technologies will bring. What does the future hold?

AI technology is developing faster than most of us expected. The worldwide web has triggered a great information explosion that continues in wave after wave. Historically, information explosions are often very disruptive, as in the rise of the printing press, of radio and television, and now the spread of intelligent computers. Human beings need time to adjust to fast changes.

So today, we will discuss the future of Artificial Intelligence in relation to human consciousness, including major ethical questions raised by philosophers and others. We also discuss some of the latest promising, and positive, scientific advances in AI.

Our special guest is Dr. Susan Schneider, Founding Director of the Center for the Future Mind at Florida Atlantic University, where she also holds the William F. Dietrich Distinguished Professorship. She is co-director of the MPCR Lab at FAU’s new Gruber Sandbox, a large facility which builds AI systems drawing from neuroscience research and philosophical developments.

Susan recently completed a three year project with NASA on the future of intelligence. She now works with the United States Congress on AI policy. Susan is also an author, and her current book “Artificial You'' discusses the philosophical implications of AI, and, in particular, the enterprise of “mind design.”

Also joining us today is postdoctoral fellow Rachel St. Clair, the founder and CEO of Simuli Inc., whose passion and goal is to help build beneficial AGI.

Talking Points

0:00 - Intro
3:07 - How Our Understanding of AI is Changing Rapidly
10:47 - Urgent Ethical Questions about AI-controlled Weapons
16:20 - Dan Dennett's Position on Treating Humanoid AI as Counterfeits
19:50 - Can Computers Emulate Biological Brains?
30:58 - Science and Philosophy Use the Same Words with Very Different Meanings.
36:23 - Scientifically, the Cortex is the Organ of Consciousness.
46:34 - Is Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) possible? How Do We Build AGI Safely?
52:44 - Does "Conscious" AGI Need a Global Workspace Architecture?
01:03:53 - Beyond Mind-Body Debates
01:13:38 - Advances in Artificial Intelligence
01:19:42 - Some Risks of Augmenting Human Abilities
01:23:20 - Thought Manipulation, Invasive Surveillance and Mass Deception
01:27:10 - Closing Statements