Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind - The Julian Jaynes Society Podcast - 03. Fact Checking Erik Hoel’s Comments on Julian Jaynes's Theory in "The World Behind The World"

03. Fact Checking Erik Hoel’s Comments on Julian Jaynes's Theory in "The World Behind The World"

03/20/24 • 19 min

Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind - The Julian Jaynes Society Podcast

Fact Checking Erik Hoel’s Comments on Julian Jaynes's Theory in "The World Behind the World: Consciousness, Free Will, and the Limits of Science."

A brief discussion between Marcel Kuijsten and Brian J. McVeigh, fact checking Erik Hoel's recent comments on Julian Jaynes's theory in his book "The World Behind the World: Consciousness, Free Will, and the Limits of Science."

They discuss a number of different problems with Erik Hoel's understanding of Julian Jaynes's theory. They also explain the critique of Jaynes's theory raised by Hoel (and originally made by Ned Block) referred to as the "use/mention error," and how that critique was later addressed by Julian Jaynes, Daniel Dennett, and Jan Sleutels.

Read the blog post: https://www.julianjaynes.org/blog/fact-checks/fact-checking-erik-hoel/

Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠.

References from the video:

Brian J. McVeigh, "Fact Checking Erik Hoel’s “The World Behind the World: Consciousness, Free Will, and the Limits of Science,” August 6, 2023. (https://www.julianjaynes.org/blog/fact-checks/fact-checking-erik-hoel/)

Julian Jaynes, "Afterword," in Julian Jaynes, "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" (Mariner Books, 1976/1990). (https://www.amazon.com/Origin-Consciousness-Breakdown-Bicameral-Mind/dp/0618057072/)

Jan Sleutels, "Greek Zombies: On the Alleged Absurdity of Substantially Unconscious Greek Minds," in Marcel Kuijsten (ed.) "Reflections on the Dawn of Consciousness: Julian Jaynes’s Bicameral Mind Theory Revisited" (Julian Jaynes Society, 2006). (https://www.julianjaynes.org/book/reflections-on-the-dawn-of-consciousness/)

Daniel Dennett, "Julian Jaynes’ Software Archeology," Canadian Psychology, 1986, 27, 2, 149-154. (https://www.julianjaynes.org/resources/articles/julian-jaynes-software-archeology/)

Marcel Kuijsten (ed.), "Conversations on Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind: Interviews with Leading Thinkers on Julian Jaynes’s Theory" (Julian Jaynes Society, 2022). (https://www.julianjaynes.org/book/conversations-on-consciousness-and-the-bicameral-mind/)

Fact Checking Erik Hoel’s Comments on Julian Jaynes's Theory in "The World Behind the World: Consciousness, Free Will, and the Limits of Science."

Read the blog post: https://www.julianjaynes.org/blog/fact-checks/fact-checking-erik-hoel/

Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠.

References from the video:

Daniel Dennett, "Julian Jaynes’ Software Archeology," Canadian Psychology, 1986, 27, 2, 149-154. (https://www.julianjaynes.org/resources/articles/julian-jaynes-software-archeology/)

Previous Episode

02. Julian Jaynes, the Bicameral Mind, and the Origin of Consciousness | An Interview with Marcel Kuijsten

Includes discussion of the problem of consciousness, what is consciousness is and is not according to Julian Jaynes, the importance of metaphorical language and writing, features of consciousness, Nicholas Humphrey's research on cave art and autism, evidence from the Iliad, ancient bicameral civilizations, the Thera explosion and ensuing tsunami, and Michael Carr's research on the bicameral mind in China. In the second hour, Marcel Kuijsten discusses the role of drugs, entheogens, hallucinogens in eliciting bicameral hallucinations, the importance of dreams in documenting the transition from bicamerality to consciousness, the origin of religion and the bicameral mind, and more. Also discussed is the significance to the theory of religious figures like Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, to more modern people like William Blake, Emanuel Swedenborg and Joseph Smith.

To listen to the full 100-minute interview, learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory, or become a member, visit the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠.

Next Episode

04. Appreciating Other Facets of Jaynesian Psychology: Part 1

Appreciating Other Facets of Jaynesian Psychology: Part 1

By Brian J. McVeigh

Jaynesian psychology can be distilled down to two major claims. First, until about three millennia ago individual behavior was governed by a different neurocultural arrangement called bicameral mentality: the right hemisphere generated audiovisual hallucinations interpreted as supernatural visitations (ancestors, chiefs, gods) that governed the left hemisphere (the “mortal” side). But bicameral mentality was no match for social transformations — expanding demographics, more complex political economic systems, mass migration, and technological innovations such as writing and bronze and ironworking. This brings us to Jaynes’s second claim. What he called consciousness, or subjective introspectable self-awareness, replaced bicameral mentality. This cognitive upgrade was a cultural invention, not a bioevolutionary development.

Like crowning towers built upon lower tiers and structures, Jaynes’s two claims rest on a number of interlocking theories that deserve attention. This is because unfortunately, reviewers, commentators, and critics often fail to see the subtlety of Jaynes’s arguments. Even critiques that are sympathetic to Jaynes’s claims often miss the nuances and richness of his theorizing, so it is worth exploring some of the chambers making up Jaynes’s intellectual edifice.

Read the complete text from this episode here:

https://www.julianjaynes.org/blog/julian-jaynes-theory/appreciating-other-facets-of-jaynesian-psychology-part-1/

Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠.